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AdamKralic
Blue Belt
Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Posts: 313
Location: Chicagoland
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 Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:20 am Post subject: How much do you "map" out a fight prior? |
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Do you go into a fight mentally telling yourself you will do move A. Then move B. Then move C?
I ask as I work with my son a lot...and I've noticed that he keeps defaulting to what he considers the safest way to fight when the stakes get higher.
Problem is his idea of safest is based off of 2 moves. 1) stopping any attack with front hand (pass through/block style) and then blitzing over the top as soon as he sees a person backing up. He's fast enough to make it work...but the defense against what he's doing is quite common...a d side. Heck he has a NASTY d side himself. 2) Tossing up one side kick to get them to go back and then blitzing over it.
He had his last sparring practice before a tournament last night. He stayed in his default all practice despite us discussing that he needed to mix it up while staying within a limited group of moves.
He knows how to circle and blitz off of it. Better than every other kid I've ever seen in any of the dojos we went to...buuuuutttttt...
He also can slide kick far enough to hit off "fight" or he can spam a sidekick at chest level...then raise to head level when at range to actually hit...solid balance and speed...buuuuuuutttttt....
Rare that he does those things in tournaments. ARRRGGGHHHH. Can you tell me how you would get that into a student's head? That he has tools that are very effective...that he's leaving in the tool box unused?
Practice (physical) ideas and mental ideas all wanted and greatly appreciated. |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances.
Military tactics are like unto water; for water in its natural course runs away from high places and hastens downwards.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
Water shapes its course according to the nature of the ground over which it flows; the soldier works out his victory in relation to the foe whom he is facing.
Therefore, just as water retains no constant shape, so in warfare there are no constant conditions. |
From Sun Tzu, The Art of War
You cannot go into any match with a preconceived idea of exactly what you will do. You'll struggle to win like that. It would be OK if you were fighting a low level opponent who only has one default attack and response but a good competition fighter has to react to their opponent's reactions. You have to constantly change your game based on the new information you receive every minute of the bout. You know a good chess player doesn't go into a match thinking "first I'll move this pawn, then that bishop, then that knight etc." a good player plays a strategy but also must react to what their opponent is trying to do. Sparring is kinetic chess.
Go into a match knowing what your capabilities are (or in this case your son's) and having practiced a variety of responses and attacks. Then I'd say he needs to spend the 1st half of the round feeling out his opponent: how is this person reacting when I do a side kick? do they have any tells? At this point you aren't necessarily chasing the points, as long as you are either even or slightly up at the halfway mark then you're all OK. Even if you are a point or two down that is OK. This is the recon part of the spar, gather as much info as possible as to how the other person responds then use that info to construct your battle plan. For example, if the fighter always goes right leg back then does a shuffle step before side kicking, use that info to plan your response. Shut them down as soon as they shuffle? Move off to the side of the side kick and counter?
He will always default under pressure as it's the easiest thing to do and sub-conciously it is the safer option because he's used to doing it. All student's go through this - this is why competition is good to see what you will do under stress. To get around that he needs to force all of these new and uncomfortable moves to feel comfortable and the only way to do that is practice practice practice. First of all a ton of drill and pad work and then incorporate this in sparring.
And you need to change the way he spars in class. There's no point your son just sparring in class the same way week in week out; winning with the same strategy every week doesn't teach him anything. You can turn it into a game for him to encourage variety. In one bout he can only attack with his left side or he has to land at least one back kick or he has to not get caught be a single technique (i.e. use footwork instead of relying on blocking). No offense but blitzing is OK but it's not a high skill level game plan. Force him to be more technical in training and you will see massive improvements.
You as a coach have to help him win the fight too. A general is always in contact with his troops on the frontline and constantly monitors them and gives new instruction based on new info. First of all, get yourself a stop watch and time every bout. Then you can prompt him as to when you are 50%, 15 secs left etc. Have a plan to either go crazy in the last 15 (if he's losing) or move off and away if he is up on points. Throughout a bout you aren't watching what he is doing you are watching what his opponent is doing. Those things like tells and weaknesses you need to be picking up on as it's much easier when you're watching as an outsider.
You then need to communicate this info so a good rapport is essential too. Your instruction to him needs to be very clear and concise, in essence you need to work out a sort of code for him. When I shout "off" to the kids I coach they know it means, get the hell away from there and circle off. Likewise I can tell them to side kick with just a hand gesture. You've got to think of yourself as the puppet master  and get them to do what you want.
I highly recommend reading The Art of War: http://classics.mit.edu/Tzu/artwar.html
_________________
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2359
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree with what DWx says. and also he needs to be tought different ways of fighting and kumite combinations to be able to fight effecfively outside of his safety net |
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AdamKralic
Blue Belt
Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Posts: 313
Location: Chicagoland
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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THIS is why I ask here. Thank you DWx and Nidan Melbourne.
I do sideline coach occassionally. Mostly in practices though...I was actually thinking that it was bad to do so. He looks to me too frequently. I felt thusly that he wasn't developing enough on his own. BUUUUUTTTTT...man he'll do anything you say...anything at all and do it instantly...so sideline coaching him is always very tempting to a person like myself.
This upcoming tournament though is a low level one. It's closed and they are very strict about matching by belt/age/size. (there are about 5 schools involved that are all within one company so to speak) He absolutely should dominate.
I have a perhaps unfair advantage in that I know exactly how they are taught to fight. They "joust" (come straight at each other) The only straight attacks I want out of my son are side kick to the chest spam to push them to edge of ring. |
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2359
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Tbh I think he is becoming too dependent on what your telling him to do. what I mean by too depedent is that in sport if you rely so much on someone else that their restricting what they could potentially do. Especially when it comes to thinking on their own and acting on what they see.
It doesn't mean stop telling him what to do all together but perhaps less will help. |
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2359
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Oh and I coach occassionaly as well and what I was told by my coaches (when I was a competitor and becoming a coach myself) was not to give instructions every few seconds. I am allowed to cheer all I want but telling them what to do I have to hold off until the break in between rounds.
As several of my students who compete (I have 4 nephews and 3 nieces who I coach in my team also) and they all are still learning who to compete so I do give them advice on what to do (like "use your kicks more" or something like that). Most are dependent on me doing that but most after the first round have picked up valuable Intel on what type of fighter that person is. And also for future fights where people fight like that.
I mean that if they fight someone who is a counter fighter and learn some habits of that person and that type of fighter then for future fights they see those movements and that they will go "OK they fight like this so I can prevent scoring by doing effective techniques against it" |
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:10 am Post subject: |
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I plan the fight based on what I see before me.
The idea of doing a, b and then c...no just no.
The person before you will do what they want to get the advantage, to do that they will have spotted a tell or set range of actions you perform. They will be working on getting that same tell (that smae action) out of you, they will be working to get you to be a robot thing ..... to repeat.
They have you at this stage its simply a matter of time before they cash in !!
Any fighter needs to see that thing in the other guy once they see he has a tell that thing where balance is poor, the guard is down etc and then they simply get them to repeat and POW!
Hence a planned set of actions going into a fight...no just no.
See something react to something.
If they are happy to sit and wait for you, cool, push them a little watch there reaction to that push, do they go left and back, or do they tense up and pull an arm back to strike...see something then react to something!
Once you see a thing (whatever it is) keep it in mind and do something else, do you get the same reaction or something new?
The trick is not to show you see the tell at all, but rather you are looking for a way into them! What you do now is plan an attack to take advantage of that tell!
Plan based on what you see!
See it Take it!
Do they charge at you at every opportunity?
Cool, side step one time, what do they do?
Go back never!!
They expect that that's why they charge at you they already have a plan for that. Don't be that guy!
Move around them...jump at them...do something else..anything! When the person charges they have no real plan to deal with anything other than someone that retreats!
Don't be that person be someone else!
Get a reaction see there reaction and deal with that!
take control, Take the center!
See it take!
_________________
“A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.”
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Lots of solid advise here so far. I think what I have to offer is a bit different, but for what its worth...
Everyone tends to develop some "bread and butter" techniques and tactics. This is the go-to stuff, they stuff they know and do so well they cand do it in their sleep. This is a good thing, I think. It can be bad, if its all that is done, though.
Here is my suggestion. Being so close to tournament, don't worry about trying to change anything up. It will likely screw up his rhythm and timing. After the tournament, take time to work with him on some different things to change up his tactics a bit. Take those few other things that you say he does decently, and focus on them more than his bread and butter stuff. Do drills that present the opportunity for him to do those techniques, and make him execute them. Tell him to spar in class with a goal to hit with those techniques, and not his bread and butter so much. Sparring in class should be about growing and learning, not about winning and losing.
This should help him to see different ways of scoring, and help him get better. Best of luck!  Let us know how the tourney goes.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
... Here is my suggestion. Being so close to tournament, don't worry about trying to change anything up. It will likely screw up his rhythm and timing.
After the tournament, take time to work with him on some different things to change up his tactics a bit. Take those few other things that you say he does decently, and focus on them more than his bread and butter stuff. Do drills that present the opportunity for him to do those techniques, and make him execute them. Tell him to spar in class with a goal to hit with those techniques, and not his bread and butter so much. Sparring in class should be about growing and learning, not about winning and losing.
This should help him to see different ways of scoring, and help him get better.
Best of luck! Let us know how the tourney goes. |
Great advice,.
On top of a contest to change now not a good idea, to work on things like this afterwards, yes top plan great suggestion.
Things will be fresh in the mind, so working on the other strike or kick or combination will have 'real world' value.
Adoption once a new set of weapons are uncovered will come on leaps and bounds!
_________________
“A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.”
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate.
Last edited by Hawkmoon on Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
Lots of solid advise here so far. I think what I have to offer is a bit different, but for what its worth...
Everyone tends to develop some "bread and butter" techniques and tactics. This is the go-to stuff, they stuff they know and do so well they cand do it in their sleep. This is a good thing, I think. It can be bad, if its all that is done, though.
Here is my suggestion. Being so close to tournament, don't worry about trying to change anything up. It will likely screw up his rhythm and timing. After the tournament, take time to work with him on some different things to change up his tactics a bit. Take those few other things that you say he does decently, and focus on them more than his bread and butter stuff. Do drills that present the opportunity for him to do those techniques, and make him execute them. Tell him to spar in class with a goal to hit with those techniques, and not his bread and butter so much. Sparring in class should be about growing and learning, not about winning and losing.
This should help him to see different ways of scoring, and help him get better. Best of luck! Let us know how the tourney goes. |
Great advice. Don't be looking to change anything this soon as it will just confuse him but maybe start working on it when you come back.
I know you do already but be sure you video his fights so that a week or 2 down the line you can both sit down and dissect them and work out his strengths and weaknesses. Look for good points but also points for both him as a fighter and you as a competitor to improve.
_________________
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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on the post.
