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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JusticeZero wrote:
Well, they built off of a study that did, so..


They may have built off that study, but from reading DWx's post, it sounds like they maybe tried a little too hard...
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DWx
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6186
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
JusticeZero wrote:
Well, they built off of a study that did, so..


They may have built off that study, but from reading DWx's post, it sounds like they maybe tried a little too hard...

Yeah I have a little bit of an issue with their method.

In particular I think they didn't exactly have a very wide number of participants. In fact they were struggling to get people to complete the self defense course. Those that were deemed vulnerable from experiment 1 didn't even have the inclination to finish up the self defense course.

Also telling someone to walk across the room and pretend they are walking across the park isn't very good I don't think. To me this is very suggestive and the person walking may sub-conciously change their behaviour because the tester has effectively told them that they need to pretend they are vulnerable.

There's also no control as to how effective the self defence courses were as we all know there is very little quality control there. The courses people conducted before the study could have been rubbish or excellent but we don't know. Similarly we don't know the quality of the course used in experiment 2. All we know is that it was how to defend against verbal and physical attack and not how to avoid attack in the first place.

It's a good basis for future work but I don't think we can read too much into the results.
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
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Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2208
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
JusticeZero wrote:
Well, they built off of a study that did, so..


They may have built off that study, but from reading DWx's post, it sounds like they maybe tried a little too hard...

Yeah I have a little bit of an issue with their method.

In particular I think they didn't exactly have a very wide number of participants. In fact they were struggling to get people to complete the self defense course. Those that were deemed vulnerable from experiment 1 didn't even have the inclination to finish up the self defense course.

Also telling someone to walk across the room and pretend they are walking across the park isn't very good I don't think. To me this is very suggestive and the person walking may sub-conciously change their behaviour because the tester has effectively told them that they need to pretend they are vulnerable.

There's also no control as to how effective the self defence courses were as we all know there is very little quality control there. The courses people conducted before the study could have been rubbish or excellent but we don't know. Similarly we don't know the quality of the course used in experiment 2. All we know is that it was how to defend against verbal and physical attack and not how to avoid attack in the first place.

It's a good basis for future work but I don't think we can read too much into the results.


its a shame that they did the study in that fashion. There are too many extraneous variables for it to make it valid.

If i was the researcher i would have had videos of participants in their daily life but without them realizing that they are being filmed (but they have consented prior to any filming being done). So it would be a longitudinal study. Then they could use the film for their evaluation techniques.

For actual self-defense courses they could be teaching those whose participate in them to how to defend themselves safely from all their concerns. Like keeping an eye on those around them (and to see if there is anyone following them).
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bushido_man96
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Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, sounds like a pretty faulty study to me. But, we did get some good discussion out of the subject here.
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Nidan Melbourne
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's always going to a good discussion on topics like these Bushido_man96
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nidan Melbourne wrote:
There's always going to a good discussion on topics like these Bushido_man96
I agree.
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lowereastside
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Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 211

Styles: kung fu

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: [Link] How people walk correlates with risk of attack Reply with quote

How people walk correlates with risk of attack - I,m in total agreement. It's not only how you walk but also the body language that you send out. Like a friend said to me a few years back - you have to send out a message one way or another. And always be on your guard. A few years ago I had relatives visit NYC - My Cousin said I was getting her nervous - she noticed I was looking over my shoulder - looking when I was going around corners - looking before getting into elevators and so on. My Cousin said what gives. First off I did not even know I was doing it - it was just part of my reaction from growing up in the Projects on the Lower East Side of NYC. It is the attack you don't see coming that is most dangerous - the weapon that comes out that is the most dangerous and so on.... That's why in the last few years I've been very critical - and have tried to take the fantasy out of what I teach.
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
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Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Life is a great teacher, experience makes it easier!

Once the magician tells his secrets the magic is gone!

Taking the fantasy out of what is taught, good for you keep it up!
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JusticeZero
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Joined: 02 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if anyone thinks they could design a better test, you're welcome to put together an experiment and send it through peer review. I've seen journal articles authored by elementary school classes or high school dropouts before, after all. It's not restricted to some specific elite of scientists; it's just that scientists are trained in how to construct them better so they survive the review process.
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