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rmurray
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 12 Nov 2010
Posts: 92
Location: Portland, OR
Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We were just practicing bear hugs and discussing the bunkai of the first techniques in Naihanchi Nidan last night. This is a defense against a bear hug but seems far from perfect. Proper form is bending at the knees and dropping your weight down and raising your elbows only as high as your shoulders. This frees up your arms and hands but realistically in practice it left the attackers clasped arms around your head or neck. I think in theory the kata supposes you are superior to your opponent and you'll be in the clear if you're able to mobilize your hands and start the next technique. Or maybe the theory is your attacker will give up his grip once you start to give him the slip. I think in a real mismatch with a large attacker you might be making your situation worse. Being in a bear hug is bad and can lead down an ugly path, but it is still safer than being in a rear choke and possibly going to sleep. I think maybe the only real defense a small woman has against a bear hug from a large male is never letting it begin. Manage your personal space and run away when you need to.
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DWx
KF Sensei
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6431
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have a similar move in one of the 3rd dan TKD patterns, Yoo-Sin. We do it slightly different (elbows more at eye level and shoulders up as if shrugging). I wouldn't totally discount it as an escape from a bear hug, works for me against a non-compliant partner (angry sibling ). Yes it is a problem as their arms do end up in that region but you have to take the opportunity to strike them or get out before they can get you.

Although obviously the best defense is not to let them grab you in the first place
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Montana
Red Belt
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 827
Location: Formerly Kalispell, Montana, now Spokane, WA
Styles: Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo & Kobudo

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rmurray wrote:
We were just practicing bear hugs and discussing the bunkai of the first techniques in Naihanchi Nidan last night. This is a defense against a bear hug but seems far from perfect. Proper form is bending at the knees and dropping your weight down and raising your elbows only as high as your shoulders. This frees up your arms and hands but realistically in practice it left the attackers clasped arms around your head or neck. I think in theory the kata supposes you are superior to your opponent and you'll be in the clear if you're able to mobilize your hands and start the next technique. Or maybe the theory is your attacker will give up his grip once you start to give him the slip. I think in a real mismatch with a large attacker you might be making your situation worse. Being in a bear hug is bad and can lead down an ugly path, but it is still safer than being in a rear choke and possibly going to sleep. I think maybe the only real defense a small woman has against a bear hug from a large male is never letting it begin. Manage your personal space and run away when you need to.


You make a good point, however you don't just stand there and let the guy grab you around the neck. As I said earlier, your jut out your butt which breaks your opponents center of gravity while executing the technique. If done properly yoru opponent will be worried about hitting the floor more than grabbing around your neck. The next technique of the kata (assuming you do it the same as we do)your arm comes up thru his arms and forces them apart.

As I've stated many times on many threads, it's easier to demonstrate than to write down.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29040
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We do what I would refer to as elbow strikes after the initial movement. They are referred to as punches over the shoulder, but I prefer the elbow strikes coming back. Also, if one of those arms are still up there, then you can grab that arm using that elbow strike/punching motion, and work from there.
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straightblast
Orange Belt
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Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 136

Styles: close quarter combat

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If every attempt at escape has failed, your not done yet.
A person is not going to stand there all night with you in a bear hug. Remember both his arms are tied up to, he will have to make a move and that might be your chance to get out.
If he has friends, try to use your legs to keep them at bay but at sometime is grip will loosen and be ready for it.
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yamesu
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Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 1391
Location: Oceania <-> Asia
Styles: Kyokushin. MT. Arnis. Judo. JediMantre.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PINCH!!!!!!!!!!!! With all of your might... Presumably, if your arms are pinned by your sides, your handsshould be near the attachers thigh or groin. PINCH!!!!

Also - if they are stronger than you and will lift you, either use 'dead weight' or flail wildly (one of the two), where you just let your muscles go and flop, its couterintuitive, and may not make them let go, but certainly makes it more difficult to keep a hold!

I do agree with other posters though. Compliant Uke, the rear bear hug being a bad psition for an attacker etc.. But still, if it does happen, use anything you can.
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april
White Belt
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Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 7


PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my friends who used to be in the army told me to grab and pull one of the fingers. Pinky finger is best because it's the easiest finger. Once you pull the finger back, it will cause a lot of pain and they will let go. I tried it on one of my big guy friends and he let go very quickly.
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aurik
Orange Belt
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Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 197
Location: Denver, CO
Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have this exact defense in our seisan bunkai as well. The short version is you cup your hand into a "koken" (ie, bend your fingers at the first knuckle to 90 degrees), then swing the arm forward enough to get a little space -- you don't need much, then swing the arm backwards like a pendulum, striking the opponent with the koken in the groin.

There's a video of it here at about the 2 minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2uBCcX3v4I. One of the keys is to not let the opponent get the grab completely in. Once you feel the arms start to go around you, strike hard. Someone isn't going to grab you for kicks -- if they're doing a bear hug from behind they probably mean to hurt you.
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Zaine
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Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1816
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's an excellent point and I don't want to take away from the good, real self-defense discussion.

However, I recently saw a video on this topic where the person suggesting just pooping yourself. It was a joke but, I mean, would you want to hold on to someone that had just pooped themselves? Seems pretty effective to me.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29040
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zaine wrote:
That's an excellent point and I don't want to take away from the good, real self-defense discussion.

However, I recently saw a video on this topic where the person suggesting just pooping yourself. It was a joke but, I mean, would you want to hold on to someone that had just pooped themselves? Seems pretty effective to me.
Now that's an extreme circumstance! If you've got one loaded, that is....
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