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KwicKixJ1
Orange Belt
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 164
Location: Texas
Styles: Taekwondo, Shorin Ryu, Shudokan, Muay Thai
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 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:51 pm Post subject: How to learn kata that your style doesn't teach? |
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I'm a HUGE kata fan. Even before I started training karate and did mainly taekwondo I absolutely loved all things kata from all styles and all countries. Seeing a practitioner on their own just mastering movement, power, balance, speed, it still gets me just as excited as it did over twenty years ago when I first started training.
With the large number of styles in karate, what would be the best way to learn kata outside of your given style? Many people are limited by geography, and trying to learn a kata off the internet is possible, but it'd be so much better to learn and ask questions from someone who truly understands it.
I'd love to explore Papuren, Nipaipo, Anan, and the Uechi-Ryu version of Seisan specifically. I train at a Shorin Ryu school and their version of Seisan is VERY different from the Uechi-Ryu version. |
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Zaine
Black Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2277
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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More than that, Seisan can be wildly different in different branches of Shorin Ryu. Shorinji does is a little differently from Shobayashi.
The best way outside of YouTube would be to get a bunch of people together and have some good old fashioned work shops. I actually think that this would be a really cool and fun idea.
_________________
Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.
https://www.instagram.com/nordic_karate/ |
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KwicKixJ1
Orange Belt
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 164
Location: Texas
Styles: Taekwondo, Shorin Ryu, Shudokan, Muay Thai
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Zaine wrote: |
More than that, Seisan can be wildly different in different branches of Shorin Ryu. Shorinji does is a little differently from Shobayashi.
The best way outside of YouTube would be to get a bunch of people together and have some good old fashioned work shops. I actually think that this would be a really cool and fun idea. |
You're from Dallas! Wonder if we trained at the same Shorin Ryu school. OKCD?
I think that would be super fun to get a bunch of people together. Hard to organize though. |
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Zaine
Black Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2277
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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No I trained in Arlington. I have actually been looking at OKCD since my CI doesn't teach anymore and I recently moved back to the area. Did you have a good experience there?
_________________
Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.
https://www.instagram.com/nordic_karate/ |
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2733
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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If your intent is simply to learn how to perform the solo kata for the enjoyment of it, rather than getting into its application, then video is a pretty good way to go. The nice thing about the pandemic has been that a lot of martial artists were forced to accept Zoom and other online teaching platforms, which makes other styles much more accessible than they once were. You can reach out to schools pretty much anywhere that teach the material you want to learn, and ask if they would do online private lessons for you, and they very well might.
Outside of that, though, as Zaine mentioned, you can build a network with other schools and martial artists in your area and schedule regular cross-training sessions. That type of knowledge exchange is fun and educational, and you can get into a lot of material you may otherwise never even realize is there.
_________________
Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society |
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aurik
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 496
Location: Denver, CO
Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: How to learn kata that your style doesn't teach? |
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| KwicKixJ1 wrote: |
I'd love to explore Papuren, Nipaipo, Anan, and the Uechi-Ryu version of Seisan specifically. I train at a Shorin Ryu school and their version of Seisan is VERY different from the Uechi-Ryu version. |
Seisan is one of the three core Uechi-Ryu kata (along with Sanchin and Sanseiryu). You can certainly find instructional videos on the basic steps, but they assume that you've already been training in Uechi-Ryu for some time. As someone who has trained in other styles (Shuri-Ryu) as well as Uechi-Ryu, I can attest that things are very different in Uechi-Ryu, from stances to kimae to blocks and strikes. Memorizing the moves for Seisan isn't all that bad, but making it *look* like a Uechi stylist performing Seisan will take much, much longer.
Also, if you want to understand the Bunkai you will almost certainly need an instructor -- I've seen a few bunkai videos, but you'll be hard-pressed to learn much from those videos, since they're generally full-speed and assume you already know what you're doing.
I know my CI will do distance learning and private lessons. I've worked with him on some Bo kata in private lessons in the past, but I'd also been training with him in karate for 2 years before I asked about that. Generally he'll teach whatever you want in a private lesson, so he MAY be able to teach you just seisan. I can provide his contact information if you want to contact me via PM.
Also, I do know of one highly reputable Uechi-Ryu instructor who has recently introduced what he calls a Seisan MasterClass that focuses on Seisan. I haven't purchased it yet, but since I'll be testing on Seisan next spring I'm considering it. If you're interested in that, PM me and I'll provide the info for that.
The short version is, if you want to learn the Uechi-Ryu seisan, you can *technically* watch a video on it, but without lots of training in the Uechi way of doing things, any Uechi stylist will know you picked it up from an internet video.
_________________
My Journey (So Far)
Shuri-Ryu 1996-1997 - Gokyu
Judo 1996-1997 - Yonkyu
Uechi-Ryu 2018-Present - Nidan
ABS Bladesmith 2021-Present - Apprentice |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16420
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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If you're wanting to learning Kata's that are outside of your core MA style, then seek out legit instructors, however, most instructors will insist on teaching the Bunkai as well. No Bunkai, then no use of learning the Kata. Why? Kata isn't a dance routine at all.
Yes, learning Kata for the enjoyment and/or for the physical cardio it'll give one is cool, but I don't teach Kata without teaching the many aspects of Bunkai.
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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KwicKixJ1
Orange Belt
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 164
Location: Texas
Styles: Taekwondo, Shorin Ryu, Shudokan, Muay Thai
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| Zaine wrote: |
| No I trained in Arlington. I have actually been looking at OKCD since my CI doesn't teach anymore and I recently moved back to the area. Did you have a good experience there? |
OKCD is pretty great. The people who train there are super friendly and it's a very traditional school. Hardly any emphasis on sparring though. I ran a couple of the once-a-month sunday sparring sessions and it's a good group to train with.
They've dialed their classes back a lot since pandemic, but I think they're on their way to operating like normal again. |
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on the post.
