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vasilist
Yellow Belt
Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Posts: 26
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 Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| JusticeZero wrote: |
One: yes, a heavy bag will have you throwing punches with a lot of force after awhile, since you NEED to have force in your punches. It's still F=MV and your need to transfer a large peak impulse into the target. You can have light punches or you can have punches that will actually have some stopping power, but you can't have both.
Two, you are wanting precision. For this, you need to be practicing form of the punches. Very slowly. Practice your punches for awhile and do not allow yourself to spend any less than twenty seconds on a single punch. Not "jab for twenty seconds", but throw ONE jab, and slow it down to last half a minute". Concentrate on getting the form and structure perfect. Then speed it up somewhat and use things like bags as part of your practice, but keep it slow. Fast movements tend to hide a lot of slop and vagueness in them, and slow movements force your brain to store how to do the punch well. |
pretty much u sum it up
anyway guys thanks for ur info, another similar thing that gives me food for though
i am not even medium lvl, i am just starter just i seek to do things as perfectly as i can in practise (i cut off power and speed so i can achieve it when i am solo practising) and i observed something, wanna hear ur opinions if its true or my idea!
when i throw combinations my maximum "non stop" is 3 punches (different hand or not its 3)
then i rethrow another 3, another 3
its not i am tired to go 4 (sometimes i go like 21 punches 7x3 in like one minute)
the "recovery time" is less than half second, just for some reason its like i fix my balance and position
so , what i want to discuss
i noticed i can use same hand much much times (like throwing 20 left jabs in a raw) and it feels right, and even steadily increasing the power and speed ( so the 20th ends up being more a straight than jab  )
something similar with uppercuts
BUT when i throw circle-like punches (hooks or any other punch that doesnt stay in same vertical axis)
it doesnt feels right, using same hand 2 times i tend to go
left right left right, left right left right, etc
its like the opposite of the rest punches
if i throw 2 hooks with left , second is like half puncher, but if i go different sides every punch feels much harder than the previous (as if i charge power or something)
attention i dont speak , just throw some hooks with same hand one after another, i mean combo
so i feels my hips give me more speed and power when i am about to throw many hooks from different hand every time
opinions? |
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JusticeZero
Black Belt
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: AK
Styles: Capoeira Angola
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:28 am Post subject: |
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When you do a circular technique, your body rotates to generate power. After finishing, the opposite side is now turned away, and has a longer amount of arc to turn through before hitting, thus feels "strong", but the original limb faces the target and has nowhere to rotate to move closer and feels "weak".
In comparison, a linear technique requires you to not only rotate toward the target to launch the strike, but also to rotate away to pull the limb back in at the end of its extension. Therefore, when it returns, it returns to a body position that is already ready to advance again.
This is a major reason why arts that use a lot of circular techniques are said to be so much more "defensive" - they are adding parries, redirects, takedowns and the like into their flow during the reciprocal stage of the movement, rather than simply reeling the attack back in.
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"Anything worth doing is worth doing badly." - Baleia |
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vasilist
Yellow Belt
Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| JusticeZero wrote: |
When you do a circular technique, your body rotates to generate power. After finishing, the opposite side is now turned away, and has a longer amount of arc to turn through before hitting, thus feels "strong", but the original limb faces the target and has nowhere to rotate to move closer and feels "weak".
In comparison, a linear technique requires you to not only rotate toward the target to launch the strike, but also to rotate away to pull the limb back in at the end of its extension. Therefore, when it returns, it returns to a body position that is already ready to advance again.
This is a major reason why arts that use a lot of circular techniques are said to be so much more "defensive" - they are adding parries, redirects, takedowns and the like into their flow during the reciprocal stage of the movement, rather than simply reeling the attack back in. |
i didnt really understand  maybe its my english
i mean something like jackdempsey roll |
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AdamKralic
Blue Belt
Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Posts: 313
Location: Chicagoland
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:47 am Post subject: |
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Boxers hit MUCH, MUCH harder than karate practioners do. This has been shown on psi pads to be true over n over n over again. The difference in force is astounding. The sports science episode that I saw had the boxer hitting literally twice as hard as the karate master.
Do you want that kind of power? Go to a boxing gym and train. If you want karate punches that are quick and hit far less hard...then you are at the right place.
Boxing is a style of martial art. It has it's strengths and it's weakness much like all martial arts do. |
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guird
Orange Belt
Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 198
Styles: BJJ, MMA, Gongkwon Yusul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:23 am Post subject: |
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I had a discussion on a similar topic a while ago.
Aside from the angular momentum of your body there is another aspect of power generation, which is to whip your arm into the strike. You still use your entire body, but it's the arm's high-speed-low-mass momentum on impact that does the damage rather than the low-speed-high-mass momentum of the torso. Ideally you'll want to use both in one punch.
It's this power generation that makes a more 'snappy' punch, more directed at tissue damage and fracture than knockouts. It isn't really what I'd reccomend for boxing but it's up to you. in terms of the impact, the torso rotation generates an impact that transfers a lot of momentum over a longer time period and distance, while a 'snappy' punch delivers a smaller change in momentum over a shorter time period and distance (higher peak force).
Systema isolates and emphasizes this element. It's not really what I'd reccomend for boxing though, the strikes don't work so well with gloves. |
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Harkon72
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 1875
Location: Wales
Styles: Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Ninpo.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Boxers hit harder, but in a glove. Take off their gloves and they hit just like the rest of us mere mortals.
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Look to the far mountain and see all. |
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AdamKralic
Blue Belt
Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Posts: 313
Location: Chicagoland
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Boxers hit harder. Taking off the glove would not reduce the power at all. The gloves are there to keep the opponent alive. Mike Tyson said the first thing that he did when getting his gloves on was to work his knuckles through the material so as to be right up to the leather.
A boxer would looooooooooooooooove to fight with the karate sparring gloves. They'd get 10x the knockouts.
That being said? A proper sliding side kick would generaate even more force.
All boxers do is punch. They train punching...as much as you train kicking and punching combined. Would you not expect better results from doubling your training in one aspect?
Last edited by AdamKralic on Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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AdamKralic
Blue Belt
Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Posts: 313
Location: Chicagoland
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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In addition to more focused training...it's also the mechanics of the motion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo2JxpcJ2BA
Take Tyson's uppercut and right cross. If you look closely...Tyson often transfers energy right from the ground up to his uppercuts. few of them in this video he springs so hard that he gets air between his feet and the canvas.
This transfer of energy upward is used in conjunction with a torque twist from his waist. Both flows of energy crash into the opponent's jaw at the same time.
I will try and find the sport science episode that i referenced earlier. |
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guird
Orange Belt
Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 198
Styles: BJJ, MMA, Gongkwon Yusul
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:31 am Post subject: |
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how did this turn into a boxing v.s. ... thread?
of course boxers punch hardest, without without gloves. The mechanics of the punch do change when the gloves come off, but not enough to offset hours of hard training. |
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:20 am Post subject: |
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Going to sound ...a little mad...going to sound a little cliche .....
punch at a candle...the idea is not to hit but to extinguish it!
If you hit it you already did it wrong!
punch at a board (makiwara)
After a while close your eyes, react to the feeling you get at the moment of contact.... the slightest touch now pull back!
The candle if hit ..goes out and breaks, after a while you learn the distance and either your arm is extended just before you would hit or you learn to stop/pull it before you hit it.
Get that moment right and the candle goes out!
The board is the same, you stop or pull before you 'HIT' it and the pull back turns the strike into a stabbing kind of action!
power is easy to switch on, good power or best power has some hip and so on are involved.
Speed and touch that's control...and that means you need to wake up nerve endings!
That touch you get just before the ribs are broken!
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“A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.”
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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on the post.
