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vasilist
Yellow Belt
Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Posts: 26
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 Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject: how to punch that way |
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i have been boxing practising for fun for some months
first with teacher then i got little broke and kept by myself
i read many articles about "full-bodyweight punches" and i have practised the rotations in hips
the thing is i dont have to punch heavy and hard
i dont want to send the opponent flying or something
the nature of the punch i want to have is sharp, LIGHT and solid
i tend to outboxing or even in close range i want to use short , compact punches not some enormous "rocky balboa" hooks
do u have any videos of how to change my technique from "destructive force" to light, fast and nice little punch? |
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2733
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: how to punch that way |
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| vasilist wrote: |
i have been boxing practising for fun for some months
first with teacher then i got little broke and kept by myself
i read many articles about "full-bodyweight punches" and i have practised the rotations in hips
the thing is i dont have to punch heavy and hard
i dont want to send the opponent flying or something
the nature of the punch i want to have is sharp, LIGHT and solid
i tend to outboxing or even in close range i want to use short , compact punches not some enormous "rocky balboa" hooks
do u have any videos of how to change my technique from "destructive force" to light, fast and nice little punch? |
I do not claim to be a boxer or kickboxer, but I would like to think that I at least know a little bit about punching, so hopefully I can help you a little.
In order to have powerful punches, you need to put your body weight behind them--without it you are simply punching with the muscles in your arms. That said, you do not have to throw hooks to use rotation and put your weight into your punches, and if you look at clean boxing technique you will see straight punches where the body is used to power the strike. I think the most formalized example you will probably find is in karate, as we are taught to torque our hips and throw our body weight into our strikes, but throw them very straight and keep the arm relaxed until the point of impact which causes a fast, whipping effect. This concept exists, in some form or another, in just about all striking arts, but the way that it tends to be demonstrated in karate makes it a little easier to see, in my opinion. When I am off work I will try to remember to edit this post with some examples if I can find them for you.
Edited to add link to a video of Peter Consterdine demonstrating the use of hip torque with straight punches: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRqfYwhsQdQ
_________________
Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society |
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vasilist
Yellow Belt
Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:31 am Post subject: |
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that quite the opposite of what i want'
i told you, i practise "full body weight" punches already...why i want is light sharp and fast punches
i know this is a movie but here is the example
2 kicks, first is what i train to do already, second is what i want to do
[url]
| Code: |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OVgiaVaGA0 |
[/url] |
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2733
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| vasilist wrote: |
that quite the opposite of what i want'
i told you, i practise "full body weight" punches already...why i want is light sharp and fast punches
i know this is a movie but here is the example
2 kicks, first is what i train to do already, second is what i want to do
[url]
| Code: |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OVgiaVaGA0 |
[/url] |
All that he did in that video is control his kick so it slapped a little into the surface of the bag without following through. It certainly looks cool for movies and it works fine for controlling your techniques when you're worried about your sparring partner, but kicking someone like that in a kickboxing match will probably just annoy them. The same "slapping a little into the surface" idea can be applied to punches, too--turn your body and whip the punch out, then stop it when it hits and pull it back--but I really don't know why this is the thing you WANT to do when you are doing kickboxing. Light- to no-contact point-sparring karate will tend to make you good at that, though, if that's all you're wanting.
A quick YouTube search and I found this guy--the way he explains it will give you a quick, whipping punch without putting much weight behind it (he does put weight behind it, just not nearly as much as Peter Consterdine) if that is closer to what you want: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czCGwYUOxow
_________________
Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society |
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vasilist
Yellow Belt
Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:59 am Post subject: |
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i am not kickboxer, i practise boxing (and mostly for self defense and fun, not to go pro)
this is what i came to conclusion when i was wanting a good way to counter punches, "stun" the opponent without making him bleed or something , hurting him from keep fighting and protect my fist
for this i found body-uppercut was quite good but i wanted one straight punch too
why i want this is cause if i aim it in precise spots i can totally stop the opponent (like joints) without breaking my hand on his bones
thanks for your response |
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2733
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| vasilist wrote: |
i am not kickboxer, i practise boxing (and mostly for self defense and fun, not to go pro)
this is what i came to conclusion when i was wanting a good way to counter punches, "stun" the opponent without making him bleed or something , hurting him from keep fighting and protect my fist
for this i found body-uppercut was quite good but i wanted one straight punch too
why i want this is cause if i aim it in precise spots i can totally stop the opponent (like joints) without breaking my hand on his bones
thanks for your response |
I guess I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around what you are having an issue with--so the problem is that you are afraid you will break your hand when you counter your opponent coming in? I have yet to do that, and I just spar with gloves and no wraps, but I also routinely practice striking without wraps and I am used to tensing my hands on impact. If you want to work on countering your opponents using straight techniques but are that worried about hurting yourself then you can throw them a bit lighter, or stop them short, because your opponent is coming toward you. Just work on controlling where your punches stop--for example, you can practice pushing the heavy bag away from you and then counter punching it when it comes back at you, which will give you some feedback on how hard you have to hit to make it stop.
_________________
Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society |
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yamesu
Black Belt
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 1391
Location: Oceania <-> Asia
Styles: Kyokushin. MT. Arnis. Judo. JediMantre.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:18 am Post subject: |
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My take on this is that your looking to train your fast-twitch muscle fibres to speed up the in-out of your punches?
I think of this akin to whipping a tea-towel.
Basically, this wont come through weight training (in fact IMO that will be quite counter productive), but really comes from actually practicing fast techniques.
In Kyokushin we do two types of punches:
-Tsuki, which are akin to a boxers cross punch. Fast out, but with full body power and does not necessarily matter about fast back in as the damage has (hopefully) been done to a point the next technique/punch can be landed.
Or,
-Uchi, which are fast in-out punches/strikes, akin to a boxers jab, aimed at causing breakages of smaller joints or bines such as the nose. Practice of these to develop both speed and power (yes, it is possible, as power is in part attributed to acceleration) comes only from drilling the punches sor speed and technique alone.
My 2 cents:
Do this practice when you are fresh (not already tired from working out) and aim to refine techniques faster and faster with every repetition. This will develop "memory" in your fast twitch muscle fibres.
Stop drilling as soon as you are tired, or you may move in the opposite direction and start to develop "memory" in biger muscles, focused solely on punching with brute force,
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"We did not inherit this earth from our parents.
We are borrowing it from our children." |
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vasilist
Yellow Belt
Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| yamesu wrote: |
My take on this is that your looking to train your fast-twitch muscle fibres to speed up the in-out of your punches?
I think of this akin to whipping a tea-towel.
Basically, this wont come through weight training (in fact IMO that will be quite counter productive), but really comes from actually practicing fast techniques.
In Kyokushin we do two types of punches:
-Tsuki, which are akin to a boxers cross punch. Fast out, but with full body power and does not necessarily matter about fast back in as the damage has (hopefully) been done to a point the next technique/punch can be landed.
Or,
-Uchi, which are fast in-out punches/strikes, akin to a boxers jab, aimed at causing breakages of smaller joints or bines such as the nose. Practice of these to develop both speed and power (yes, it is possible, as power is in part attributed to acceleration) comes only from drilling the punches sor speed and technique alone.
My 2 cents:
Do this practice when you are fresh (not already tired from working out) and aim to refine techniques faster and faster with every repetition. This will develop "memory" in your fast twitch muscle fibres.
Stop drilling as soon as you are tired, or you may move in the opposite direction and start to develop "memory" in biger muscles, focused solely on punching with brute force, |
this was pretty help full
to pose it better with words i want my punches to have as much perfect technique as i can and correct speed and not so much a wild power blast
i want to totally control the hand motion so i can hit to the ammount i want to make opponent unable to keep up (mentally and physically) without nessesarily doing very big and wide swings vulnerable to counters
but with small precise fast and "smooth" moves
so i suppose shadowboxing is the only way?
i mean cause heavybag makes u throw hard punches after a while |
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JusticeZero
Black Belt
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: AK
Styles: Capoeira Angola
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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One: yes, a heavy bag will have you throwing punches with a lot of force after awhile, since you NEED to have force in your punches. It's still F=MV and your need to transfer a large peak impulse into the target. You can have light punches or you can have punches that will actually have some stopping power, but you can't have both.
Two, you are wanting precision. For this, you need to be practicing form of the punches. Very slowly. Practice your punches for awhile and do not allow yourself to spend any less than twenty seconds on a single punch. Not "jab for twenty seconds", but throw ONE jab, and slow it down to last half a minute". Concentrate on getting the form and structure perfect. Then speed it up somewhat and use things like bags as part of your practice, but keep it slow. Fast movements tend to hide a lot of slop and vagueness in them, and slow movements force your brain to store how to do the punch well.
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"Anything worth doing is worth doing badly." - Baleia |
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yamesu
Black Belt
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 1391
Location: Oceania <-> Asia
Styles: Kyokushin. MT. Arnis. Judo. JediMantre.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| vasilist wrote: |
| yamesu wrote: |
My take on this is that your looking to train your fast-twitch muscle fibres to speed up the in-out of your punches?
I think of this akin to whipping a tea-towel.
Basically, this wont come through weight training (in fact IMO that will be quite counter productive), but really comes from actually practicing fast techniques.
In Kyokushin we do two types of punches:
-Tsuki, which are akin to a boxers cross punch. Fast out, but with full body power and does not necessarily matter about fast back in as the damage has (hopefully) been done to a point the next technique/punch can be landed.
Or,
-Uchi, which are fast in-out punches/strikes, akin to a boxers jab, aimed at causing breakages of smaller joints or bines such as the nose. Practice of these to develop both speed and power (yes, it is possible, as power is in part attributed to acceleration) comes only from drilling the punches sor speed and technique alone.
My 2 cents:
Do this practice when you are fresh (not already tired from working out) and aim to refine techniques faster and faster with every repetition. This will develop "memory" in your fast twitch muscle fibres.
Stop drilling as soon as you are tired, or you may move in the opposite direction and start to develop "memory" in biger muscles, focused solely on punching with brute force, |
this was pretty help full
to pose it better with words i want my punches to have as much perfect technique as i can and correct speed and not so much a wild power blast
i want to totally control the hand motion so i can hit to the ammount i want to make opponent unable to keep up (mentally and physically) without nessesarily doing very big and wide swings vulnerable to counters
but with small precise fast and "smooth" moves
so i suppose shadowboxing is the only way?
i mean cause heavybag makes u throw hard punches after a while |
I am exactly the same, already having a fairly muscular structure, I dont want to focus on brute strength, and becoming light and fast is much more of an attribute I wish to hone.
"small, precise and fast" will come with practicing "small precise and fast". I know that sounds odd, but its correct. Your muscles will end up reverting to their most known states when under exhaustion, so if you have honed fast twitch muscles, they're much more likely to be available to use when needed.
This is exactly why most people will revert to wide-swinging hooks after being punched/kicked in the face once... However, if someone has conditioned their muscles to utilise fast twitch fibres, it carries over when exhausted.
Shadow boxing is great for this, but dont overlook bagwork. Heavy bag is a great tool no matter what, but dont over do it! If you start off (I would say max 5min at a time or even per day) just drilling fast and accurate strikes you will see wonders in speed and power development - I know I have.
But keep in mind its only worth practicing this when your fresh and not already exhausted, as this will be counterproductive and the body will end up becoming used to using larger muscle groups as opposed to smaller/faster ones.
I think of it like this - sprinters dont practice faster sprinting by doing long distance endurance jogging... they simpy keep sprinting, honing technique when their muscles are fresh, and then paracticing endurance as they get more tired...
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"We did not inherit this earth from our parents.
We are borrowing it from our children." |
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on the post.
