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Tkd&bjj
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Posts: 60
Location: South Fl
Styles: Taekwondo, bjj, kempo, jkd concepts, escrima

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
In the early days of the UFC, Royce Gracie, who did wear a gi, used the opponents gi, should they have one on, against them quite effectively.

Also, those same early days of the UFC, weight divisions didn't exist, albeit, that's more accurate as to how it might be on the streets, and because of that, it's possible that MMA isn't a style of the MA afterall, and it's nothing more than boxing extreme....maybe?!?!




Royce Gracie competed in an era when many martial artist were blind to grappling concepts. Now that all mma fighters have a knowledge of ground fighting the gi would basically become a handle for an opponent. The grips provided would help your oponnent strike, submit, sweep, and controll you.
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kensei
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Joined: 05 Oct 2012
Posts: 235
Location: Canada
Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having watched UFC from the start and watched what the way that Gracie used it and having trained a tad bit in BJJ I think that the Gi would make the fights faster, you can get submissions quicker using a gi, more options and also the throws would be more dynamic. The whole thing would NOT have evolved away from traditional fighting systems as it has.

I also think that Boxing and kick boxing would have had a smaller impact on the whole style of fighting as you would see faster submissions dispite the single sided skill sets facing each other. It would be more grappling based, in a traditional way.

Just my thoughts...today!
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ps1
Black Belt
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Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 3024
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't really matter. Anderson Silva would still be destroying people. Fedor would still have been among the most dominant ever. GSP would still be an unwavering force. Randy Coture would still have pinned everyone against the cage and tore them apart.

The lesser fighters may have been a little different, but the big names would still have been dominant. This is because, to become as good as they are, you must study every aspect of the game and absolutely master at least one. Some already train in gi and those who don't, would have learned what to look out for and developed strategies to defeat it.
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kensei
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Joined: 05 Oct 2012
Posts: 235
Location: Canada
Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ps1 wrote:
Doesn't really matter. Anderson Silva would still be destroying people. Fedor would still have been among the most dominant ever. GSP would still be an unwavering force. Randy Coture would still have pinned everyone against the cage and tore them apart.

The lesser fighters may have been a little different, but the big names would still have been dominant. This is because, to become as good as they are, you must study every aspect of the game and absolutely master at least one. Some already train in gi and those who don't, would have learned what to look out for and developed strategies to defeat it.


I respectfully do not agree 100% The grapples like Damian Maia would be doing much better, GSP would have joined Gracie Barra sooner, Randy would have had more issues as wrestlers are not used to the Gi stuff and Fedor would have done much better as he started in a Gi and only lost to guys in the end when he was not able to close the difference and throw them.

It would have changed the way that the whole thing looks. I truly think that grappling would be even more prevalent in MMA if the Gi was still allowed. But fights would probably be slower and the MMA world would not be as popular today with as many people.
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Tkd&bjj
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Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Posts: 60
Location: South Fl
Styles: Taekwondo, bjj, kempo, jkd concepts, escrima

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The gi is a disadvantage to the person using it. If allowed it would just help your opponent establish grips. Unless your doing a "ninja" choke where you choke them with your own gi there are few tactical advantages to wearing one.

If a gi is required then the bjj/sambo/judo practitioners would have a clear advantage though.
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- Choi, Hong Hi, Founder of Taekwon-Do

“If you are tired you’re not strong, if you are tired you’re not fast, if you’re tired you don’t have good technique, and if you’re tired you’re not even smart".
-Dan Inosanto
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14987
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tkd&bjj wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
In the early days of the UFC, Royce Gracie, who did wear a gi, used the opponents gi, should they have one on, against them quite effectively.

Also, those same early days of the UFC, weight divisions didn't exist, albeit, that's more accurate as to how it might be on the streets, and because of that, it's possible that MMA isn't a style of the MA afterall, and it's nothing more than boxing extreme....maybe?!?!




Royce Gracie competed in an era when many martial artist were blind to grappling concepts. Now that all mma fighters have a knowledge of ground fighting the gi would basically become a handle for an opponent. The grips provided would help your oponnent strike, submit, sweep, and controll you.

I don't think that MAists were blind to grappling concepts, no, they just weren't effectively experienced in them, and for the most part, they still aren't.


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Tkd&bjj
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Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Posts: 60
Location: South Fl
Styles: Taekwondo, bjj, kempo, jkd concepts, escrima

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe they weren't blind. But many martial artists did not train any ground fighting. Of course their were judoka and wrestlers Long before the UFC. However many martial artists just limited themselves to one art and thought that just knowing karate, or boxing was enough. When you look at the 1st UFC the only other fighter in the tournament with any knowledge of ground fighting was ken shamrock. Today still many martial artists are content with being one dimensional.

Of course there are martial artists such as Bruce Lee who knew that to be a complete MAist all ranges of combat must be addressed. If you look at most of the Gracies they were on the opposite side of the spectrum. Incredible grappling, but very weak stand up.
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"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to go to his class."
- Choi, Hong Hi, Founder of Taekwon-Do

“If you are tired you’re not strong, if you are tired you’re not fast, if you’re tired you don’t have good technique, and if you’re tired you’re not even smart".
-Dan Inosanto
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MasterPain
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 1949
Location: Parts Unknown
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Backyard Kali, Satsui no Hadou

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tkd&bjj wrote:
If you look at most of the Gracies they were on the opposite side of the spectrum. Incredible grappling, but very weak stand up.


It took a while for this to be much of an issue in MMA, but today you have to be balanced. I particularly remember Jens Pulver puting on an absolute clinic of sprawl and brawl against a good grappler, who could do nothing to answer but flop on his back and pray to whoever his higher power was that Jens would just get in his guard already.
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ShoriKid
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Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 897

Styles: Matsubyashi-Ryu, Okinawan Kempo, wrestling, bits of BJJ

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MasterPain wrote:
Tkd&bjj wrote:
If you look at most of the Gracies they were on the opposite side of the spectrum. Incredible grappling, but very weak stand up.


It took a while for this to be much of an issue in MMA, but today you have to be balanced. I particularly remember Jens Pulver puting on an absolute clinic of sprawl and brawl against a good grappler, who could do nothing to answer but flop on his back and pray to whoever his higher power was that Jens would just get in his guard already.

I do miss Lil Evil at his best.

The gi, to a striker who is used to it, offers plenty of tactics which can gain advantage in the stand up phase. Offers plenty of defensive options all the way around. It would make things interesting for sure.
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barrypardue
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Joined: 25 Mar 2013
Posts: 102
Location: Mississippi
Styles: Shotokan Karate, Judo

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would really change things you wouldn't be so slippery so judo throws and collar chokes would be more likely
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