Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Self Defense
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

simonkyo
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 2
Location: Hungary
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

I have just started to learn kyokushin, at a great dojo in my hometown. The trainings are very tough I think, comparing to those I practiced before: wing tsun, wado-ryu, krav maga, etc. The trainings are 3 times a week. We do a lot of strength exercises, interval fights against bags, we practice kicks and punches on each other, but we haven't done any serious sparrings just yet. I'm sure we will, but it's still a beginner group, with not much experience, so I think it's just right.
Apart from that I run on a daily basis, and am in a good shape.

My question is: what do you think about kyokushin' effectiveness in a street fight situation? I know it does depend on the dojo you go to, that's why I wrote about mine. I don't want to be a champion, I just want some good skills to be able to defend myself on the street if I'll have to. I don't like katas, I like the fighting part of karate, that's why I ended up at the kyokushin dojo.

So tell me what you think guys, you are much more experienced than me, I would happily read your opinions and advices. Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

tallgeese
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6834
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First up, welcome aboard. As to your specific question, I think you'll find that you've got a great base art in regards to focus on self defense. It's a heavy contact focus with heavy sparring and excellent movement.

There are a couple of things to keep in mind. First up, you'll have to deal with a lack of focus on striking to the head as a primary sparring method. This can develop some bad habits if one isn't careful. This will depend, of course, on the individual school.

Next up, at some point you'll probably want to look at supplementing your stand up with some ground work. It's almost mandatory these days if we're talking about a well-rounded self defense pattern. It does not need to be a primary thing for you, but you'll want it in the tool box.

Lastly, you might want to do some work outside your system with weapons if that's a concern. And in today's world, it probably is. Adding some knife defense and gun work might not be a bad idea. Even if it's seminar based, it's better than nothing.

These last two are just things that don't get dealt with a lot in your system if the examples I've seen hold. However, again I'd say that it's a pretty good jump off point for self defense. I'm with you in the area of kata. Don't worry, there is no mandatory requirement to use it to gain combative ability. I'll no longer say that it flat out won't teach you things, but I will make arguments that there are more efficient ways to prep for street level combat, but that's another issue with several threads devoted to it already.

Bottom line, training hard in your style will certainly increase your chances of doing well should you need to. Just look at a couple of areas that it might not cover well (depending on the school) and look to fill those in down the road.

Good luck and keep us posted.
_________________
http://alphajiujitsu.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJhRVuwbm__LwXPvFMReMww
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger

JusticeZero
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: AK
Styles: Capoeira Angola

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other thing is that fights are by their nature not very easy to prepare for specifically, but not generally all that difficult on the whole. IIRC it is Miller that comments on how he had trained martial arts some time, then actually got into a fight 'on the street' and the moment he actually got his hands on the attacker, realized that he needed to dial it way down because the attacker was not able to fight - a strung out guy with no training and the physique of overcooked linguini. It is not so much that you have to face a super tough, ruthless vicious ninja pirate as it is that you have to be able to deal well with a wide variety of possible scenarios, most of which start out with you losing before you can start to act. As such, overtraining and ability to do well when you're exhausted, overheated, bruised and sick are important.
_________________
"Anything worth doing is worth doing badly." - Baleia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Dobbersky
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 1320
Location: Manchester. United Kingdom
Styles: Black Tiger Karate Do

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simonkyo wrote:
Hi everyone,

I have just started to learn kyokushin, .......

My question is: what do you think about kyokushin' effectiveness in a street fight situation? I know it does depend on the dojo you go to, that's why I wrote about mine. I don't want to be a champion, I just want some good skills to be able to defend myself on the street if I'll have to. I don't like katas, I like the fighting part of karate, that's why I ended up at the kyokushin dojo.

So tell me what you think guys, you are much more experienced than me, I would happily read your opinions and advices. Thanks



OSU!!!

Welcome to the forum, and welcome to Kyokushin.

well what you need to do is not to worry about what to do in a self defence situation as you can read all the books, attend all the seminars but nothing will prepare you as to the best way to react.

Your Kyokushin training will definately give you all the tools you need , it will condition you to give and to take hits, it will give you a presence which will in itself be an ora of confidence which should (not always guaranteed) put off most possible assailants

just concentrate on you training and if it happens just go with it

OSU
_________________
"Challenge is a Dragon with a Gift in its mouth....Tame the Dragon and the Gift is Yours....." Noela Evans (author)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

tallgeese
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6834
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dobbersky wrote:
simonkyo wrote:
Hi everyone,

I have just started to learn kyokushin, .......

My question is: what do you think about kyokushin' effectiveness in a street fight situation? I know it does depend on the dojo you go to, that's why I wrote about mine. I don't want to be a champion, I just want some good skills to be able to defend myself on the street if I'll have to. I don't like katas, I like the fighting part of karate, that's why I ended up at the kyokushin dojo.

So tell me what you think guys, you are much more experienced than me, I would happily read your opinions and advices. Thanks



OSU!!!

Welcome to the forum, and welcome to Kyokushin.

well what you need to do is not to worry about what to do in a self defence situation as you can read all the books, attend all the seminars but nothing will prepare you as to the best way to react.

Your Kyokushin training will definately give you all the tools you need , it will condition you to give and to take hits, it will give you a presence which will in itself be an ora of confidence which should (not always guaranteed) put off most possible assailants

just concentrate on you training and if it happens just go with it

OSU


I'll agree to just about everything you put out there Dobbersky, but the bolded area above we can work on. It goes hand in hand with the training hard in your chosen system. But, if we look at the things that happen to the body during combat, we can mimic those by simulation drilling, stimulus/ response training, and scenario based training. This does, in fact, teach your body how to deal with the incident before it happens. It is, of course, not a perfect replica, but it is does help shape and control your response to an out of control situation.

Grossman talks about it in "On Combat" (a book that, along with "On Killing" should be on every martial artist shelf) when he discusses building "pre-combat veterans". In other words, we look at the successful skill sets of individuals that have won in combat and design drills to mimic those events and create the physiological conditions that the body creates while in them. This, in turn, builds that skill set that a combat veteran has in his arsenal into a fresh fighter without that experience.

A couple of things have to exist to create this. First up, and you are right on the money here, you have to train hard in your response pattern. Then, you have to design realistic drills to mimic real events. Then you move it to scenario based testing where we have to see the response work.

One tactical cop I know, after engaging in a shooting, stated that the event was "just like sims" (referring to simunition training). This was his first deadly force encounter, but by building a good training pattern, we can sit on that chaos of a fight and our response and thus mitigate negative effects. In essence, we CAN prep for how to best react.

The same thing applies to martial artist in general, not just the ones carrying guns.
_________________
http://alphajiujitsu.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJhRVuwbm__LwXPvFMReMww
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger

Kodakmint
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 132

Styles: American Freestyle Karate

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Groin always the groin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

JusticeZero
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: AK
Styles: Capoeira Angola

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'go for the groin' is a horrible response.

First, it might do nothing useful. I've been hit there. It did nothing to me at the time. About a minute after I sat back down, THEN it knocked me on my backside. An attack that ensures that an attacker will be incapacitated shortly after they finish committing the crime and getting away is one that is not really advisable to use as a primary technique.

Second, it's obvious. Everyone says 'go for the family jewels'. They will be defended, and the defense might have planned followthrough.

Third, it is unpracticed. How often do you hit your training partner there in the training hall? Do you do live groin-hitting drills with a resisting opponent? No? Then you are not going to have a very effective delivery system to get the technique to land.

So you are advising that in case of attack, students use techniques that are completely unexpected, that they have never trained, to hit their attacker in a way that has a good chance of doing absolutely nothing whatsoever during the window of time in which they need their attacker disabled. That sounds like horrible advice to me.
_________________
"Anything worth doing is worth doing badly." - Baleia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Kuma
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 1092


PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JusticeZero wrote:
'go for the groin' is a horrible response.

First, it might do nothing useful. I've been hit there. It did nothing to me at the time. About a minute after I sat back down, THEN it knocked me on my backside. An attack that ensures that an attacker will be incapacitated shortly after they finish committing the crime and getting away is one that is not really advisable to use as a primary technique.

Second, it's obvious. Everyone says 'go for the family jewels'. They will be defended, and the defense might have planned followthrough.

Third, it is unpracticed. How often do you hit your training partner there in the training hall? Do you do live groin-hitting drills with a resisting opponent? No? Then you are not going to have a very effective delivery system to get the technique to land.

So you are advising that in case of attack, students use techniques that are completely unexpected, that they have never trained, to hit their attacker in a way that has a good chance of doing absolutely nothing whatsoever during the window of time in which they need their attacker disabled. That sounds like horrible advice to me.


Excellent post.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

MasterPain
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 1949
Location: Parts Unknown
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Backyard Kali, Satsui no Hadou

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JusticeZero wrote:
How often do you hit your training partner there in the training hall? Do you do live groin-hitting drills with a resisting opponent?


A lot. Also headbutts, knees, elbows, stomping people before they can get up, drawing weapons mid-fight, neck cranks, all sorts of nasty stuff. You're right though, these things have to be practiced if you plan to use them.

And no, they are not 100% fight enders, but neither is a jab and cross.
_________________
My fists bleed death. -Akuma
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

FangPwnsAll7
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 377
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Styles: Tang Soo Do

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would basically just use my awesome karate techniques on them. I'd kick them... um, somewhere.
_________________
Tang Soo Do - Red Belt (2nd GUP)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Self Defense All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 5 of 6
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >