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DarthPenguin
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Joined: 03 Dec 2021
Posts: 134
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ

PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
What explanation could I ever offer that they've might've already heard before?? Any explanation could only come across like some used car salesman. No. Explanations take the back seat to experiencing.

One needs to experience what you've to offer. To experience, one's going to have to get on the floor, and proof is on the floor, not in cheap handed rigmarole.

Imho.




Definitely agree here. Tbh there is no such thing as a 'best' martial art, though there might be a best one for an individual.

They should try it and see what they think of the instructor and other students. Most decent schools offer a minimum of one free lesson, so worst case you try it and score something off your list. I'd always prefer to have tried the thing and decided for myself that it was crap!

But tbh i have found before that anytime i had to 'convince' someone to try that they generally don't stick it out. Proper MA training is hard. You have to have a desire to do it yourself for the effort to be worth it.
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LionsDen
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Joined: 06 May 2022
Posts: 136


PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarthPenguin wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
What explanation could I ever offer that they've might've already heard before?? Any explanation could only come across like some used car salesman. No. Explanations take the back seat to experiencing.

One needs to experience what you've to offer. To experience, one's going to have to get on the floor, and proof is on the floor, not in cheap handed rigmarole.

Imho.




Definitely agree here. Tbh there is no such thing as a 'best' martial art, though there might be a best one for an individual.

They should try it and see what they think of the instructor and other students. Most decent schools offer a minimum of one free lesson, so worst case you try it and score something off your list. I'd always prefer to have tried the thing and decided for myself that it was crap!

But tbh i have found before that anytime i had to 'convince' someone to try that they generally don't stick it out. Proper MA training is hard. You have to have a desire to do it yourself for the effort to be worth it.

The scenario isnít trying to convince them to do martial arts. Theyíve already made that decision, but to explain to them why karate over any other martial art.
And sampling a few classes at different schools can give you an idea of if you enjoy the training and the coaches/teachers, but canít tell you which one is best for what you want (in this case self defense or fighting)

Youíre literally just giving an advertisement or marketing pitch for karate.
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15773
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought that this topic was on the premise of "convince" because of the title of this topic. My mistake.

I'd never try to "convince" anyone that they should take Karate over other MA's because I know that Karate by itself isn't effective. If anything, I'd be stressing an eclectic approach of many MA's, and never just one.



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RW
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 425


PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much as I love karate, is it really the best art to learn for self defense?

Someone can defend himself far better with 6 months of boxing than 2 years of karate. The karate path is decidedly slower, harder to master. Muay Thai may take longer than boxing, but it takes less time than karate too.

Good karate schools are hard to find nowadays too. The local "Tim's family karate and bushido" school at the strip mall will probably have people doing kata and some drills and moves (e.g. punches from horse stance) 60% of the time, 10% point sparring and the rest is calisthenics.

I see karate more as a system that helps people of all walks of life stay healthy (because it's a full body workout), have some structure and discipline in their life, and pick up some self defense along the way. Karate is more about the journey, the path, if you will, in my opinion.

One of its significant advantages is that people with jobs and family can practice it without the fear of showing up to meetings or seeing one's kids with a black eye and a busted lip, this may not be the case with the likes of boxing and muay thai
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LionsDen
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Joined: 06 May 2022
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
I thought that this topic was on the premise of "convince" because of the title of this topic. My mistake.

I'd never try to "convince" anyone that they should take Karate over other MA's because I know that Karate by itself isn't effective. If anything, I'd be stressing an eclectic approach of many MA's, and never just one.


yes you are convincing people between martial arts. Youíre not convincing people to start martial arts.
What do you think the point of an advertisement or marketing campaign? Itís to convince consumers to purchase your product or service.
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LionsDen
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RW wrote:
As much as I love karate, is it really the best art to learn for self defense?

Someone can defend himself far better with 6 months of boxing than 2 years of karate. The karate path is decidedly slower, harder to master. Muay Thai may take longer than boxing, but it takes less time than karate too.

Good karate schools are hard to find nowadays too. The local "Tim's family karate and bushido" school at the strip mall will probably have people doing kata and some drills and moves (e.g. punches from horse stance) 60% of the time, 10% point sparring and the rest is calisthenics.

I see karate more as a system that helps people of all walks of life stay healthy (because it's a full body workout), have some structure and discipline in their life, and pick up some self defense along the way. Karate is more about the journey, the path, if you will, in my opinion.

One of its significant advantages is that people with jobs and family can practice it without the fear of showing up to meetings or seeing one's kids with a black eye and a busted lip, this may not be the case with the likes of boxing and muay thai

Youíre talking about training methods not like styles. Training methods vary from dojo to dojo.
Many dojos have 0 grappling taught or practiced. My dojo we worked on throws and a couple of other take downs regularly.
Many dojos never spar, my dojo used to regularly spar, and did hard spars regularly.
Some dojos only focus on kata competition and kata collection with no deeper understanding, and some dojos donít compete ever in favor of focusing on self defense.

You can learn self defense at a boxing gym, but there is a bit more to self defense than Ďpunch them in the face until they stop attacking youí so the overwhelming majority of boxing gyms arenít great places for learning self defense.
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Zaine
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Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1920
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends on what they were going for. I'm also assuming that this would be someone I knew talking to me about it. If they were just looking for defense in general, and an exercise, I would argue that they should do karate because I do karate and it's nice having a friend there when you did it. Also, since I am experienced, they would have someone they felt comfortable asking questions to right off the bat.

If they were looking to do something specific, like MMA or kickboxing, it's unlikely that I would argue with them to do karate over something more tailored to what they want. I would advise them to come visit time to time to open up their perspective, but I'm of the opinion that if something caters to their specific desires then that thing should be what they pursue. Martial arts tend to be what we make it and the more people engaging with it at any level the better. Not everyone has to enter into the fighting side of it through karate like I did.
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15773
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone knows me, they know that I don't spend any time in convincing anyone about any particular MA style, including Karate. As I've mentioned before, I don't care what MA style they want to train in, of which, I might mention Judo or Boxing, for example, for them to check them out. Whether they do or not, I just don't care.

Perhaps I'll just bow out of this conversation for no particular reason(s) for a moment or two.



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Sailor Sindbad
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Joined: 05 Dec 2019
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Styles: Kobayashi Shorin-ryu

PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: How would you convince somone to train Karate over.. Reply with quote

GS718Trek wrote:
What explanation would you offer if someone asked you which martial art they should learn for self defense or fighting? How would you explain the advantages and disadvantages of Karate over other martial arts like BJJ, Muay Thai, Boxing?


For "self defense or fighting," it depends on how immediate the need is. If it's a kid who is getting physically bullied at school, or anyone else getting physically assaulted on a regular basis for that matter, I'm only going to recommend boxing. No other martial art but boxing.

For anyone who wants to learn "self defense or fighting" for "just in case" purposes, then karate actually enters the debate.
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DarthPenguin
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Joined: 03 Dec 2021
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ

PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: How would you convince somone to train Karate over.. Reply with quote

Sailor Sindbad wrote:
GS718Trek wrote:
What explanation would you offer if someone asked you which martial art they should learn for self defense or fighting? How would you explain the advantages and disadvantages of Karate over other martial arts like BJJ, Muay Thai, Boxing?


For "self defense or fighting," it depends on how immediate the need is. If it's a kid who is getting physically bullied at school, or anyone else getting physically assaulted on a regular basis for that matter, I'm only going to recommend boxing. No other martial art but boxing.

For anyone who wants to learn "self defense or fighting" for "just in case" purposes, then karate actually enters the debate.


Actually, i might disagree here from personal experience, though i think things have changed over time. I first started karate at 5 for that very reason (without going into too much detail i was picked on a lot due to being mixed race). Started mid 80s in the UK and trained 4 times a wk almost from the get go.

I actually found it very useful self defence wise when a kid: i could throw a punch with a decent amount of power and generally handle myself reasonably. Over time (and a lot of fights) i began to be targeted a lot less.

For context, before i started i would always lose - in particular this one kid always stepped in and gave me a kicking. About 3mths after starting karate i broke his nose with a punch and he never tried again. At the time i was also tiny: i didn't grow til my mid teens really so i was always a small kid

I do know though that things might have changed a lot now and karate might not be as good self defence art for kids anymore, based on how it is currently taught.

Just my 10p worth
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