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Dmitriy
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 8


PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:49 pm    Post subject: I got demoted... Reply with quote

Hello. My instructor's name is David Laggini. I recently got a red belt 2nd degree from him.
Recently he demoted me back to white belt, and basicly restarted my belt progress.
It was because I quit for one month. I live in New Jersey, USA.
I just want to report this incident to you. I don't think that should happen to anybody!
My name is Dmitriy Yampolskiy.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14406
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems quite a harsh punishment for quitting for just one month. However, it's his dojo, and as CI, his decision is final. Demotions happen more often then we might ever realize, albeit, the students are responsible for their actions.

Would I have demoted you after just missing 1 month?? No, no matter what the reason(s) might be; not just for quitting, If there's something under the surface of this other than just quitting for a month, then definitely not, after all, real life does get in the way.

One of the reasons I'd demote any student is if they were gone for some quite some time. I'd expel a student if they were convicted of a crime against more turpitude, for cause.

Now, in your situation, once a Red Belt, always a Red Belt because the earned knowledge and experience of that Red Belt can't ever be taken away. The tangible belt can be taken away at the discretion of the CI, but in no time at all, the Red Belt will once again be around your waist.

In closing, if your in the MA for rank, and not for its knowledge and experience, then integrity was never an issue, nor a concern, just rank. I don't believe that this is the case, but if it is, train hard and train well to earn that which your CI demands.





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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2431
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As sensei8 said; demotions do happen, and they are at the discretion of the instructor. Personally, I would think you had to do something far worse than quit for a month to be demoted that far, but perhaps he just has different expectations and policies than I would. Just remember that the belt you have isn't important--you still know what you were taught, and you will still continue to learn and develop your skills, regardless of what color belt you wear.
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Shorin-Ryu | 2010-Present: Nidan | Sensei: Richard Poage, Jeff Allred
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Dmitriy
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 8


PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:34 am    Post subject: ok I understood Reply with quote

Thanks for the help!
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1723

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are only two choices here and it is up to the OP to make the decision. One is to forget everything that happened and find another instructor or system to learn. The other option is to forget all feelings of being slighted and let go of all arbitrary notions of rank or grade if the OP values actual skills gained.

If the OP does indeed value physical skill and overall growth in the system trained, the final and essential question is this: In a month of absence, has anything been forgotten or become awkward and clumsy? Or is everything still as sharp and crisp as it was the day before the month-long absence began ?

Either way if the pursuit and development of skills are the first priority; ranks and grades are meaningless. Following this reasoning, demotions or promotions are also insignificant. One either can do something or cannot. In both cases training and practise are the decisive factor.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27760
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the above made points. It seems like an unreasonable reaction to me, but it's not my school, either.

Did you feel like the school was a good school? Do you feel you were learning good skills there? Do you feel you could speak with the instructor to find out why he demoted you? I think these are all questions you need to ask and have answered, and move forward from there.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2206


PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you earned the rank then it is yours, if the rank was given to you then it is symbolic.

Passing tests and examinations is the usual way belt rankings are earned.

However there are systems that give belt rankings based on time and effort put in, or just simply honourary.

The give and take of rank seems fine with the CI perhaps this is how he was trained; military use this system.

Missing one month of training on the surfaces might seem like a small amount of time but for the CI it could seem like a giant gap; as speculating here, he was going to promote you but instead demoted.

Snakes and ladders promoting and demoting students is demonstrating who is in charge, as get with the programme or expect reprisals.

Sending a clear message that this is not the way it works around here, to treat the dojo like a drop in centre is not on.

Student teacher relationships in the past could be similar to physical abuse today.

CI's have less control over students today as moving, changing, discovering afar is normal, stick to it ness, is not the way of today.

CI's can get stuck teaching the basics to students over and over again, due to commitments that take students away from completing the curriculum.

Personally I don't teach with belt ranking beliefs, but if I did, I might adopt the give and take belt ranking system.

Perhaps demotions, is a tool or way to communicate disapproval.

Having the option of demotions and none attachment to students when it deems fit to do so, is the prerogative of the CI; as students are a reflection of the school.

If a student turns out to use the skills taught towards bad intentions, then disassociation with that student is understandable.

Missing one month of class and demoting doesn't seem to be fair or equal, perhaps it is the shock or surprise of the unexpected that has happened, is what you are wrestling with.

Missing one month more or less of training is nothing much over the long run, this is obviously something more than that.

Could be worth asking oneself, is it worth pushing the issue, or just to get back to training is more important, as double promotions are also possible!
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JazzKicker
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 07 Aug 2017
Posts: 128
Location: NJ
Styles: JKD, TSD, MMA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless your attendance has been spotty before that, or you've otherwise had problems at the school, I would say it's nonsense, and you should go to a different school.

There's plenty of choices in central NJ. If you want to stick with Ryu Kyu Kempo and Edison is not too far for you, go to Mark Kline's "State of the Art Karate Institute". He's an old friend from college, and an international grandmaster, very knowledgeable.
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Dmitriy
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 8


PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:15 am    Post subject: ok thanks Reply with quote

After green belt I quit, and I still have red belt certificate! So, I am alright. Thanks for your opinions.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27760
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dmitriy wrote:
After green belt I quit, and I still have red belt certificate! So, I am alright. Thanks for your opinions.
So what's next?
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