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Luther unleashed
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Joined: 30 Jan 2014
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Location: Phoenix
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:07 am    Post subject: I held my first women's self-defense class Reply with quote

So a while back I had a conversation with some of you in a women's self-defense thread. I had a friendly disagreement with some about the effectiveness and the point of it. I have now completed my first women's self-defense class and I figured I give my thoughts on it.

Leading up to it I was very excited to see what happens and how well anything that I taught would be retained, I talked to groups. The first group was age 12 to 17, the next group was 18 and up . In the first class which was the teens, I had about 19 students, in the second class which was adults I had about 10.

The fun part for me was challenging them and interacting with them, I enjoyed asking what type of situations do they think they would be in that they'd like to know how to protect themselves in. The most common things I was asked about was a bear hug from behind or certain types of grabs. This made it fun because I wasn't there to just talk and talk and talk, I was able to answer their questions and kind of dig into their fears and ways to handle it. The approach that I took was from the mental aspect mostly because I believe that self-defense always starts with the mental approach. I was amazed at how many people did not know about, or know what their panic button did on their car. In teaching women to make a lot of noise, that in itself I felt was a great success and give them a better opportunity to protect themselves in understanding how important it is to make noise. Some of the other things we worked on like specific self-defense moves from wrist grabs to bearhugs I tried to teach the simplest techniques in the simplest way possible, I taught strikes in the form of hammer fist and palm strikes and really nothing else besides kick to the groin.

When it comes down to it I feel that it was very effective in getting a message across, at least the mental approach felt very fulfilling, with some of the physical it's kind of in the person's ball court on whether they would like to go home and practice with their husbands and things of that nature but from a mental approach I would call it a success. This particular class was free to anybody living inside the Phoenix area and I was paid a check from the county for my services, so it was a win-win and based on these things I was very happy with how everything turned out.

Feel free to share some of your thoughts I woman self-defense in general, I know there has been a few threads about it in the past but maybe we could build upon what's already been stated here.
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JR 137
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a LEO, so take what I say at face value...

I honesty think women's self defense is different than men's. Women usually get attacked differently, and the motives are usually different. I'm thinking more sexual assault/kidnapping type stuff. Obviously that's not the only way and reason for attack, but I immediately think that stuff first when I think women's SD.

I'd put very high priority on staying off and getting off their back, for a lack of a nicer way to say it. Also, arm grab, bear hug type grabs, and chokes.

As a bartender and patron, the women's fights very typically consisted of a hair grab to pulling down the head, followed with punches to the face (while having a handful of hair). Women's "fights" were always so much different than guys' fights.

But obviously, the most important thing is awareness. Avoiding a situation before it starts, minimizing risks, what to do when the risk presents itself before it manifests, and so on.

My mother took a women's SD course offered by the police department through a previous employer. It was a 3 hour per week for several weeks course that can be updated/refreshed annually or so. She said they spoke about a lot of things like where to put your bed, don't unlock your car doors more than a few feet away, where to park, etc.

Reminds me... I've been meaning to start a "What have you seen?" thread here. When I've got time and motivation.
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chiliphil1
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm very interested in this topic. I've been thinking when I get my dojo up and running that I should offer a women's class either on a separate day or independent of the normal MA classes.

I agree with your points, I feel that women's SD is very different. I look at it in the light that women (on average) don't have the strength of men so they need to know more in the way of leverage and quick but debilitating attacks.

Another fine point that you made is how women are attacked, generally a guy will not come up and want a fistfight with a female. My theory on women's SD would revolve around "fight enders" movements which would stop an attack quickly. I don't feel that they need to know holds, chokes, grabs, etc.. Rather they should know the places to hit that will give them a chance to escape.

To my mind the main focus of women's SD is to get away, not to detain or otherwise "beat up" the attacker. Of course, mine is but one of many different ideas on the topic, but personally I plan to concentrate on pressure points, groin attacks, and throat attacks. Strategic areas and HOW to hit them.
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points, JR 137. Our DT club offers several personal defense seminars a year to women mostly, and they focus a lot on what you mentioned; choking attack, sexual assault situations, and the like. They need the tools to get away, and get help.

It sounds like your course went well, Luther. Hopefully, you get to do some more of them, and get repeat customers.

One of the most important things to impart on them at the end of the course is to seriously consider taking up some form of training or other on a regular basis. Its the best way to keep your body fresh in self-defense techniques.
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: I held my first women's self-defense class Reply with quote

Luther unleashed wrote:
So a while back I had a conversation with some of you in a women's self-defense thread. I had a friendly disagreement with some about the effectiveness and the point of it. I have now completed my first women's self-defense class and I figured I give my thoughts on it.

Leading up to it I was very excited to see what happens and how well anything that I taught would be retained, I talked to groups. The first group was age 12 to 17, the next group was 18 and up . In the first class which was the teens, I had about 19 students, in the second class which was adults I had about 10.

The fun part for me was challenging them and interacting with them, I enjoyed asking what type of situations do they think they would be in that they'd like to know how to protect themselves in. The most common things I was asked about was a bear hug from behind or certain types of grabs. This made it fun because I wasn't there to just talk and talk and talk, I was able to answer their questions and kind of dig into their fears and ways to handle it. The approach that I took was from the mental aspect mostly because I believe that self-defense always starts with the mental approach. I was amazed at how many people did not know about, or know what their panic button did on their car. In teaching women to make a lot of noise, that in itself I felt was a great success and give them a better opportunity to protect themselves in understanding how important it is to make noise. Some of the other things we worked on like specific self-defense moves from wrist grabs to bearhugs I tried to teach the simplest techniques in the simplest way possible, I taught strikes in the form of hammer fist and palm strikes and really nothing else besides kick to the groin.

When it comes down to it I feel that it was very effective in getting a message across, at least the mental approach felt very fulfilling, with some of the physical it's kind of in the person's ball court on whether they would like to go home and practice with their husbands and things of that nature but from a mental approach I would call it a success. This particular class was free to anybody living inside the Phoenix area and I was paid a check from the county for my services, so it was a win-win and based on these things I was very happy with how everything turned out.

Feel free to share some of your thoughts I woman self-defense in general, I know there has been a few threads about it in the past but maybe we could build upon what's already been stated here.

Outstanding OP; well done!!



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Luther unleashed
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Joined: 30 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So honestly I got so busy and was looking at all the threads that I forgot I posted this, I'm glad to see some of you took the time to post. I tend to wish I got notifications when people posted and threads that I made or post it in that way nobody would ever go without others responding.

So the first couple of posts talked about the way women get attacked, I completely agree that women are typically attacked differently than men especially by men. This is something that I covered in the seminar, I spoke about the difference between two grown men putting their hands up for a fight or something you see in women's MMA, and what they were more likely to face which was somebody grabbing the wrist, somebody grabbing them in a bear hug from behind, and things like that. I did specifically cover things like this, we worked on chokes and basic ways to get out of wrist grabs and of course a bear hug from hind has always been a tough one, I have a pretty awesome technique that I really like but it's not so simple to perform so I went with some of the more simple ones as well to give them options.

As far as the point also made above about women needing techniques to use against somebody stronger, essentially what I did was took all of my martial arts training which goes back to taekwondo, karate, Jeet Kune do, and I try to pick apart the most direct and effective techniques that a weaker person could use on a stronger person. These techniques would use body leverage and joint to leverage versus strength. This was the entire goal on the physical side, as I said the mental side was pretty much to teach them to open their mind and open their eyes and to think a certain wa this was the entire goal on the physical side, as I said the mental side was pretty much to teach them to open their mind and open their eyes and to think a certain way.

I'm opening up a standalone location in April and I intend on having some classes which I probably will offer free because it's a great type of class to offer for free, also it doesn't hurt to bring people into the dojo for potential customers. We'll see how well it goes when I open the doors of course.

In all I would say that I do not believe, nor do I sell any of these women the idea that if they take my course they're going to be able to take anybody that is the size of a gorilla, mostly I lay a foundation of basic knowledge of basic techniques to get them really using their mind to think about things, and learn some basic techniques that use body leverage and full body strength versus things like chokes and grabs. Some great points were made here about getting off their back and defense against sexual assault, I'll be honest, teaching these techniques to complete novices was certainly not the easiest task. Each class ran for one and a half hours and I was somewhat disappointed at the lack of techniques that I was able to teach, I mean I was probably able to teach seven or eight really good basic techniques along with doing a lot of interacting and talking but we never got to the back to be honest. Certainly this was my first one and I'm sure myself or even anybody could learn to incorporate those things and manage time more efficiently, will call in a trial that I did Haha. For a trial I think it went great.

Thanks for the comments guys, keep them coming.
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JR 137
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was reading a blog a while back by a police officer who also ran a jujitsu dojo. He investigated sex crimes.

He wrote that every Friday and Saturday night, before his teenage daughter goes out, she has to escape his mount and apply either a joint lock or choke that he can't get out of. She isn't allowed to leave until she does it. His pre-teen daughter has to escape a wrist grab before she's allowed to leave without a parent.

He wrote that his non-police friends and family make fun of him for it. His response - if they saw what I see on a regular basis, they'd do the same.

Makes you think. If I can find the blog, I'll post a link.
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Luther unleashed
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
I was reading a blog a while back by a police officer who also ran a jujitsu dojo. He investigated sex crimes.

He wrote that every Friday and Saturday night, before his teenage daughter goes out, she has to escape his mount and apply either a joint lock or choke that he can't get out of. She isn't allowed to leave until she does it. His pre-teen daughter has to escape a wrist grab before she's allowed to leave without a parent.

He wrote that his non-police friends and family make fun of him for it. His response - if they saw what I see on a regular basis, they'd do the same.

Makes you think. If I can find the blog, I'll post a link.


It's interesting. In life and as parents we have to find the balance of these things. At some point I think you can't be too careful, on another note you can be too obsessed with protection and taking away from living... Interesting though!
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jaypo
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
I was reading a blog a while back by a police officer who also ran a jujitsu dojo. He investigated sex crimes.

He wrote that every Friday and Saturday night, before his teenage daughter goes out, she has to escape his mount and apply either a joint lock or choke that he can't get out of. She isn't allowed to leave until she does it. His pre-teen daughter has to escape a wrist grab before she's allowed to leave without a parent.

He wrote that his non-police friends and family make fun of him for it. His response - if they saw what I see on a regular basis, they'd do the same.

Makes you think. If I can find the blog, I'll post a link.


Wow. I have a 12 year old daughter, and if I did this, she'd never be able to leave the house! I need to work with her..
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
I was reading a blog a while back by a police officer who also ran a jujitsu dojo. He investigated sex crimes.

He wrote that every Friday and Saturday night, before his teenage daughter goes out, she has to escape his mount and apply either a joint lock or choke that he can't get out of. She isn't allowed to leave until she does it. His pre-teen daughter has to escape a wrist grab before she's allowed to leave without a parent.

He wrote that his non-police friends and family make fun of him for it. His response - if they saw what I see on a regular basis, they'd do the same.

Makes you think. If I can find the blog, I'll post a link.


This is awesome!
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