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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Consider a review a little revise of your fighting style ...

!change an idea!

Normally when you attack you open with a:
punch, maybe two and add a kick.
or
A low kick and add punches to mid and upper body
or
kick, knee punch
or
and so on and so on

... that sort of thing right?

Do this instead...
attack as defense
defense as attack.

When they punch your block the punch hard, smash the forearm with a solid fist.
when they kick, kick the other leg, or block with a knee, trust me your knee will win any 'argument' with there toes!

When you punch they block , follow it through hit the blocking arm or leg. (not knee )
when you kick, KICK hit whatever they put up to stop your kick. (not knee )

It sounds mad, I know it really does, but I'll add it really works!

Practice it, have a guy punch at your mid-section 10-20 etc times, ask him to keep the same tempo and equal power, you are after all only practicing!
As the punch comes in 'smash' his forearm in a block action to stop him hitting you!

... bet he doesn't get to the full 10 -20 or whatever strikes without stopping, or changing his speed or dropping his power!

Now change to...
He 'goes' to punch you, you strike out and punch his shoulder, stopping his a attack.
He 'goes' to kick you, kick his standing leg a roundhouse type kick just make sure to sweep it up as you pass under him center!!

Think of a block you do and see if you can attack with that block as the attack it is!Same for strikes
same with a strike/punch ... if you hit his arm his wrist, his hand can you stop him hitting you!
_________________
A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate.
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guird
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 198

Styles: BJJ, MMA, Gongkwon Yusul

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawkmoon wrote:
Consider a review a little revise of your fighting style ...

!change an idea!

Normally when you attack you open with a:
punch, maybe two and add a kick.
or
A low kick and add punches to mid and upper body
or
kick, knee punch
or
and so on and so on
...


It's a little tricky to time and aim, but it you strike your opponent's bicep as they're punching (especially hooks), It hurts quite a bit, because the force behind their punch is added to the power of your strike.
I did this once with a hammerfist strike, and had it done to me with a tight hook to my wide one. It certainly isn't a fight ender, and it won't slow them down much (unless maybe you land it multiple times?), but it creates a massive opening when it lands, so if you capitalise on that it could be worth doing.

I'm not sure how well it would go with boxing gloves like in muay thai though. both times I and my opponent were wearing MMA gloves.
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

guird wrote:
... I'm not sure how well it would go with boxing gloves like in muay thai though. both times I and my opponent were wearing MMA gloves.


Yeah! sorry for that assumption and my ignorance, I' don't wear gloves when I fight so I've no real appreciation for them!
I was kind'a assuming the 'hammer' side of the fist/glove was less padded if it is padded at all!

...and yes, repetition is key here, sure a good solid smash 'might' take the edge of the other fighters desire, but one hit alone is not something you should hope for or rely on!!

Multiple hits/repetition is a good sure fire way of getting the edge, and a little understanding of the mind of your opponent!

If its working his strike rate drops!
If it works his power drops!
(Both as a rule)
If it works he gets angry and starts to be predictable!
If it works he gets angry and starts leave large gaps to aim at!
If it works he backs down/away!

... sure that's a lot of ifs, but and this is the important point one of them will be true and that put's you now in his head!

When you block (as attack) do so trying to hit the same area again and again, same goes for attack (as defense) same target every time!
His demeanor towards you will change, he will take a more defensive or less aggressive direction!

When he does you have the edge, more options and to boot your in his head!
_________________
A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate.


Last edited by Hawkmoon on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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yamesu
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 1391
Location: Oceania <-> Asia
Styles: Kyokushin. MT. Arnis. Judo. JediMantre.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

guird wrote:
yamesu wrote:
1-2 followed with a head kick is a great finisher.
I never expect this to land at first, as people tend to be more on guard at the start of a match. Its more of a finisher, in my experience, to end a match when fatigue sets in.

My personal fav is:
Front leg roundhouse, solid jab, cross, rear leg round house.
Then follow up with cross/hook front uppercut, which will lead you back to starting position if your in control of the fights movement.
Alternate follow up is for the rear leg to move straight into a second kick once it retracts from the roundhouse, such as a spinning back kick or axe kick.
In Japanese (kyokushin talk):
Hidari Mawashi geri, Oi Tsuki, Gyaku Tsuki, Migi Mawashi Geri.
The other great thing about this particular combo is you can vary the height of th kicks with ease. Mix it up and keep your opponent thinking.
Low kick, punch/punch, mid kick.
Low kick, punch/punch, low kick.
Low kick, punch/punch, high kick.
High kick, punch/punch, low/takedown kick.

You get the picture.


A personal MT fav of mine is a soft/quick jab, followed through to a spinning elbow on the opposite arm.


visited This thread again for ideas while shadow-boxing

At my kickboxing school we're taught that generally speaking, after you punch with left you kick with right and after punching with your right you kick with your left. Is that just for beginners? I notice your combos don't follow this, and I've seen plenty online that also don't. The instructors are mostly kyokushin-based I think, or at least have their base in some form of karate. When I try to kick with one leg after punching with the same hand I only manage to do it with any power if the punch is a feint.

Also, any idea how I can work combos that start with a kick into my shadow boxing? nowadays I follow my kicks through, which means that when I don't have a target I can't follow a kick up with a punch, only a spinning kick or side kick.


Sorry for the delayed reply, totally missed the reply tag on this thread.

Hawkmoon has raised some pretty solid points.

As far as leading in with kicks, I would say just do it. Go back to basics and work it slow before trying full speed/power. I tend to like starting with a low inside thigh kick or front kick to the stomach and then follow on with punches. Just me personally.

You know, I have been doing the same side kick/punch thing for so long now it just seems normal.
I thought long and hard about the "why" aspect, and to my, it is simply getting more bang for your buck energy-wise.
I have seen some kickboxing instructors who tout the lead punch rear kick thing (and vice-versa) based on the turn of the body the punch gives to lead into a fully cocked kick, but I tend to disagree. Particularly if you are sparring a more skilled opponent.
Also (get ready for big ancient secret).... when you throw a right hand punch, and can throw the right leg low kick straight after, the punch almost puts the kick in a "blind spot" of sorts, so it is not being telegraphed as much and is much easier to land.

Just my 2 cents.
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We are borrowing it from our children."
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Archimoto
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 12 Apr 2014
Posts: 548

Styles: JKD / Muay Thai / TKD

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good question. Preset combos are a good thing to have however it's also good to let it flow. You want to be fluid while shadow boxing because that is what you want while in the ring. I always do a few standard combinations to get going but then improvise. Sometimes I'll go through the alphabet, finding alternate combinations to write each individual character. Other times i'll visualize an opponent and work on my counter combinations using blocks, etc.
I think the main thing is having fun - the rest falls into to place with repetition.
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To quote the great Bob Marley: "LOVE IS MY RELIGION"
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guird
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 198

Styles: BJJ, MMA, Gongkwon Yusul

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yamesu wrote:
guird wrote:
yamesu wrote:
1-2 followed with a head kick is a great finisher.
I never expect this to land at first, as people tend to be more on guard at the start of a match. Its more of a finisher, in my experience, to end a match when fatigue sets in.

My personal fav is:
Front leg roundhouse, solid jab, cross, rear leg round house.
Then follow up with cross/hook front uppercut, which will lead you back to starting position if your in control of the fights movement.
Alternate follow up is for the rear leg to move straight into a second kick once it retracts from the roundhouse, such as a spinning back kick or axe kick.
In Japanese (kyokushin talk):
Hidari Mawashi geri, Oi Tsuki, Gyaku Tsuki, Migi Mawashi Geri.
The other great thing about this particular combo is you can vary the height of th kicks with ease. Mix it up and keep your opponent thinking.
Low kick, punch/punch, mid kick.
Low kick, punch/punch, low kick.
Low kick, punch/punch, high kick.
High kick, punch/punch, low/takedown kick.

You get the picture.


A personal MT fav of mine is a soft/quick jab, followed through to a spinning elbow on the opposite arm.


visited This thread again for ideas while shadow-boxing

At my kickboxing school we're taught that generally speaking, after you punch with left you kick with right and after punching with your right you kick with your left. Is that just for beginners? I notice your combos don't follow this, and I've seen plenty online that also don't. The instructors are mostly kyokushin-based I think, or at least have their base in some form of karate. When I try to kick with one leg after punching with the same hand I only manage to do it with any power if the punch is a feint.

Also, any idea how I can work combos that start with a kick into my shadow boxing? nowadays I follow my kicks through, which means that when I don't have a target I can't follow a kick up with a punch, only a spinning kick or side kick.


Sorry for the delayed reply, totally missed the reply tag on this thread.

Hawkmoon has raised some pretty solid points.

As far as leading in with kicks, I would say just do it. Go back to basics and work it slow before trying full speed/power. I tend to like starting with a low inside thigh kick or front kick to the stomach and then follow on with punches. Just me personally.

You know, I have been doing the same side kick/punch thing for so long now it just seems normal.
I thought long and hard about the "why" aspect, and to my, it is simply getting more bang for your buck energy-wise.
I have seen some kickboxing instructors who tout the lead punch rear kick thing (and vice-versa) based on the turn of the body the punch gives to lead into a fully cocked kick, but I tend to disagree. Particularly if you are sparring a more skilled opponent.
Also (get ready for big ancient secret).... when you throw a right hand punch, and can throw the right leg low kick straight after, the punch almost puts the kick in a "blind spot" of sorts, so it is not being telegraphed as much and is much easier to land.

Just my 2 cents.


Thanks, I'll try practicing it some more and see how it works for me.
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, work at it it is odd, it is even backward but stick with it it will work!

Something else for you to consider is to 'train' the other guy.
.. as you fight make sure to be seen to focus on an area of him, his left ribs or his right thigh, you get the idea.

The idea is to get him to think about that area and your attack on that area more than he would normally. You are doing this to get into his head, to train him to think about an area rather than the whole fight.

Don't get me wrong, do go at his other leg, and/or his head or his <insert body part>, just make sure to be seen to focus on a specific part of him form time to time.

When he starts to react to it more then normal swop it up and attack the gap you spotted earlier!

e.g:
You 'train' him to focus on the lower part of his body and attack the upper part when his guard drops to cover the attack to that area.
_________________
A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate.
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