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kamahlthedruid
Orange Belt
Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 172
Location: san diego, california
Styles: Systema
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 Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:35 pm Post subject: I really hate forms |
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i want my messages deleted
Last edited by kamahlthedruid on Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kamahlthedruid
Orange Belt
Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 172
Location: san diego, california
Styles: Systema
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| I shall focus on these styles once I finish school! |
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MMA_Jim
Blue Belt
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 275
Location: Philadelphia
Styles: BJJ, Muay Thai
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Forms dont really help you very much in real fighting, that is unless its a free form type of environment (like shadowboxing).
You're in San Diego, thats a hotbed for jiu jitsu and MMA if I ever knew of one. I'd take advantage of that situation if I were you... |
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joesteph
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: I really hate forms |
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| kamahlthedruid wrote: |
I have a hard time remembering forms. How can people use forms in actual fighting?
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The forms are meant to be a compact way of containing martial art moves, both offensive and defensive, within a given set of movements. That means that it's essential to be able to break the form down into the various applications that are actually within it.
Here's an example of taking from a Soo Bahk Do form:
One particular portion has the forearms form an X in front of you, then as the forearms separate, the hands appear to be holding a ball. Next you let out a front kick.
The application was explained offensively by my SBD teacher's own teacher as seizing someone's lapels, pulling them together for a choke, and then firing off the kick to his midsection.
However . . .
I saw forming the X defensively, striking the inner forearms of someone who's grabbed hold of me, then separating my forearms as I grab his arms. Next comes the front kick, which can be done with the ball of the foot, as in the form, or with the heel, as a push kick, or even use the lower shin to drive up into the scrotum. I also so the X, still defensively, striking the inner forearms of the grabber, as above, but then seizing his head with my thumbs in his eyes. Then comes a kick as I described, above. If he's reaching for me with one or both arms, form the X as I ram into him, which was an alternate suggestion in discussion I'd had with, again, my SBD teacher's own teacher. Now infight with the close-range weapons at my disposal. I was constantly working at tearing the forms apart, Kamahl, whether trying to figure out applications myself, asking my teacher in-between classes or at the end of class, and surfing YouTube. I might get in a couple of minutes of testing an application with a friend but, unfortunately, class time wasn't allotted for practicing applications. I found out that it was because there's a curriculum to be followed by certified studios, meaning class time goes for following the curriculum guide first, and applications from forms are really reserved for dan level.
I ended my Soo Bahk Do studies after two years, happy to have made 4th gup (kyu), and am in another school that has the preliminary/basic form explained to me simply because I asked. I'm still working on it, but there's been practice of the application as well as performing the form, and I believe that forms are done better when you have some idea of what's martial about the movements.
To sum up: I'd say you'd be more open to forms if you knew what you were actually practicing.
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~ Joe
Vee Arnis Jitsu/JuJitsu |
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Lupin1
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 1637
Location: Naples, FL
Styles: Isshinryu
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| To second what Joesteph said, forms are only as good as the applications you gain from them. At my school, we generally teaching the kids the forms while keeping applications limited and simple. The goal is to start out just getting movements right so that they're second nature and then when they start studying applications in the advanced belts, they'll be able to do the moves without thinking (like Daniel-San painting the house until he didn't have to think to side block). Forms are a way of honing stances, techinque, breathing, timing-- everything you need to fight competently. Of course, they're pointless if you don't also study the applications, but if really STUDIED (meaning studying the applications as well as perfecting the form itself), they're anything but useless. |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 5:36 am Post subject: |
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Well said Lupin1.
I also see forms as a place for practising perfect form. When I think back to other sports I did, we would drill everything with a perfect form before trying them out in a live situation. So the perfect forehand for tennis or perfect throw for netball. The moves may seem exaggerated at the time but what it does is promote muscle memory. TBH you needn't do forms if you are drilling everything in this way with all the different moves and stances and combinations, its just forms provide a nice way of keeping that altogether.
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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kamahlthedruid
Orange Belt
Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 172
Location: san diego, california
Styles: Systema
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| cool fifth degree black belt bjj master carlos valente teaches near my work place! |
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kamahlthedruid
Orange Belt
Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 172
Location: san diego, california
Styles: Systema
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Grand master Gary Alexander doesn't have perfect form because he wants to do forms the same way he fights. He said fighting is suppose to look scary not aesthetically pleasing. |
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Lupin1
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 1637
Location: Naples, FL
Styles: Isshinryu
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes well, I don't believe anyone should use the title Grand Master unless they've been dead 50 years. Just proves everyone has different opinions. |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| kamahlthedruid wrote: |
| Grand master Gary Alexander doesn't have perfect form because he wants to do forms the same way he fights. He said fighting is suppose to look scary not aesthetically pleasing. |
Depends what you interpret perfect form as. Doesn't necessarily have to be aesthetically pleasing, I never said that's what it was. Of course it can be as well as a by-product of what you're doing but primarily its just what you'd call a perfect technique. And in any case, why does GM Gary do forms then if he wants to do them the same way he fights? Seems like a waste of time to me, he might as well just practise live on bags or in sparring rather than trying to make "step forward and punch in a front stance" etc. fit to a live situation.
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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on the post.
