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immaterial
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Joined: 12 Jan 2019
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject: If you faced a grappler and could only throw a punch or kick Reply with quote

Before he clinched and took you down, and ground and pounded you to oblivion.... Would you opt for a punch or a kick?

The problem as I see it with boxing is that if the grappler goes for an ankle pick, like Couture- Toney, he is not within reach for any punches... but if you kicked instead, it might catch him on the way down.

The problem with kicking is of course the need for precision, power, and not getting the leg grabbed.

The problem for both is that it needs to stun the grappler, in order for him to not just blast through (which is often the case).

So, which is your pick?
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Himokiri Karate
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No punch use up kick or short elbow strike. If you want to get crazy unconventional then try a pinch or tickle If life and death.
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RW
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

headbutt or groin knee
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Wado Heretic
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Joined: 23 May 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couture-Toney is probably the most recent "Old-School" UFC fight because you never see Couture attempt such a naked low single against a solid wrestler. You will rarely see such a thing happen in modern Free-Fighting as if you fail, you end up on your face, with your opponent in top position.

I would not try a kick, especially if we are talking about the grappler already making a forward move to connect. A decent wrestler knows how to prepare himself physically and psychologically for impact when going in for the clinch or the takedown: because hitting someone with your body hurts, and hitting the ground hurts if you miss. If you can absorb a tackle, you can absorb a kick with the timing thrown off.

It is also a factor of physics: to make the kick work I have to come forward with my weight, and if I connect with impeccable timing, all my weight and force is transferred through the focus of my foot and will apply the greater force. However, that requires impeccable timing and aim, if I throw the kick while dealing with someone already coming forward and moving down it makes it unlikely to work. The kick will possibly whiff and go above them. They may connect with the leg part way through the motion, making the kick weak and ineffectual even if the kick catches them, and I have effectively gifted them my leg to grab hold of. Otherwise, I am connecting at speed with my opponent while I have one foot off the ground, and they have two on the ground, which means they will probably win the meeting of forces.

I would not try to kick if my primary concern is them coming forward to try and clinch up, or secure a takedown. If I had the choice between a punch or a kick: I would focus on the jab and using that to at least bloody the nose, or throw the timing of the takedown off. At least, once they connect I would have both of my feet on the ground with a punch, giving me a better defensive base.

Realistically, the last twenty-five years (not including the lessons of Combat SOMBO, Nippon Kenpo, and Daido Juku to name a few) have taught us that pressure, movement, and a wrestling defence are the effective defences against a grappler just closing the distance. Throwing a strike and hoping for the best never worked, and has never worked.

If I was going to use my striking in a self-defence situation where someone closed the distance: sprawl and knee to the head, or a North-South Elbow onto the back. Something I could do without sacrificing my grappling defence.
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tallgeese
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I concur in large part with Wado here. To counter grappling you must have some sort of grappling training. You need not be an expert in it, but you must understand the mechanics of it. Particularly the sprawl.

Given the parameters of you question however, I'd opt for hand tactics. A kick, no matter how well delivered, leaves you immobile. This makes controlling distance, escaping, sprawling, or any other form of counter difficult.

Hands will allow you to keep your feet under and angling for an escape.
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would opt for the punch first to the opponent's ear, to upset their inner balance and equilibrium, which might give you an extra 3 seconds to live before getting ground and pounded.

As to sprawling as mentioned, just a suggestion, the added slamming the opponent's lungs from above, on the back very hard, (while at it) is very effective (knocking the air out of your opponent) might want to give it a try, before going for the usual choke, so as to live 3 seconds longer than one might exspect.
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By kicking, you leave yourself on a shaky base with only one leg, which is not much of a base at all. I'd rather have a solid base and land a solid punch, and still be able to sprawl and defend the takedown attempt.
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conrad665
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Joined: 17 Jul 2009
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Styles: Shotokan Karate, Ashihara Karate, Judo, Iaido

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
By kicking, you leave yourself on a shaky base with only one leg, which is not much of a base at all. I'd rather have a solid base and land a solid punch, and still be able to sprawl and defend the takedown attempt.


I came to write this indeed, I could never dare use a high kick in a street fight, well, I guess I'd use no kicks at all. If I am blocked or gotten by the leg, I would be in deep trouble. Therefore I would go by punches or elbow strikes-face is a smaller target, so I would try a hit in the stomach. Grapplers are really dangerous when they -grapple, but punches are always faster.
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JR 137
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

conrad665 wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
By kicking, you leave yourself on a shaky base with only one leg, which is not much of a base at all. I'd rather have a solid base and land a solid punch, and still be able to sprawl and defend the takedown attempt.


I came to write this indeed, I could never dare use a high kick in a street fight, well, I guess I'd use no kicks at all. If I am blocked or gotten by the leg, I would be in deep trouble. Therefore I would go by punches or elbow strikes-face is a smaller target, so I would try a hit in the stomach. Grapplers are really dangerous when they -grapple, but punches are always faster.


Even against a pure striker, my rule is punch above my own waist and kick below my own waist.

That doesnít mean donít punch below or kick above theirs. By all means, kick him in the head if heís down.

Edit: thatís a true SD situation with no option but to keep fighting.
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JR 137
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does a sweep count as a kick in this thread?
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