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KarateGeorge
Brown Belt
Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 646
Styles: Shuri-te Karate, Wing Chun
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 Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd be fairly confident in my abilities if I were to have to fight today. Does that guaranty myself a win. No, I don't think so, as even the greatest fighters can be bested, but I feel confident that my training is very effective in a street application sense. I think I'm definitely better off with my training than without it, and that it does give me an added advantage. My school does a nice blend of tradition with realism, teaching both traditional techniques and then "throwing it to the wind" for when you're in a self-defense situation, since the "rules" don't apply on the street. |
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Fearun9033
Yellow Belt
Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 90
Location: Montreal, Canada
Styles: Shotokan Karate-do - 2nd kyu
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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I've actually asked my sensei a few times if all these katas we do actually help in any way in a real fight. So many katas just seem so decorative and bizarre that they feel just like dancing (sequence of movements with rhythm).
He told me something and I think it makes sense.
Not only does kata help with general fitness and muscle toning, the bunkai (application) is the most important part of kata.
He told me that when you practice kata, do not practice it as a dance (oops), practice it while imagining all the applications and as if an opponent is attacking you in reality. This means, large techniques, fast, strong and focused.
But I think the most important thing about kata is that as you practice the sequence, those sequences get reflexive and second nature. Let me explain. When I was a white belt and I spared against someone, I used to think too much. I could at most throw 1 technique or 2 in succession. When I block, I often forget to return an attack. But with Kata (which has a lot of technique successions) and practice, whenever I see a punch to the face, my reflex kicks in and I instinctively block, grab, front kick, punch, throw. So I think that is the most important aspect of kata and it has definitely helped me during combat because you think less and react faster.
During kihon, we do all basics very exaggerated, but during combat, you realize that you become much faster.
Hope it answered your question1 
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Throwdown0850
Brown Belt
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 701
Styles: Judo, BJJ, Uechi Ryu
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Fearun9033 wrote: |
I've actually asked my sensei a few times if all these katas we do actually help in any way in a real fight. So many katas just seem so decorative and bizarre that they feel just like dancing (sequence of movements with rhythm).
He told me something and I think it makes sense.
Not only does kata help with general fitness and muscle toning, the bunkai (application) is the most important part of kata.
He told me that when you practice kata, do not practice it as a dance (oops), practice it while imagining all the applications and as if an opponent is attacking you in reality. This means, large techniques, fast, strong and focused.
But I think the most important thing about kata is that as you practice the sequence, those sequences get reflexive and second nature. Let me explain. When I was a white belt and I spared against someone, I used to think too much. I could at most throw 1 technique or 2 in succession. When I block, I often forget to return an attack. But with Kata (which has a lot of technique successions) and practice, whenever I see a punch to the face, my reflex kicks in and I instinctively block, grab, front kick, punch, throw. So I think that is the most important aspect of kata and it has definitely helped me during combat because you think less and react faster.
During kihon, we do all basics very exaggerated, but during combat, you realize that you become much faster.
Hope it answered your question1 |
True but doin kata and then actually applying the techniques on a resisting opponent is two separate things, that way your actually fighting somebody. cause in a kata your not practicing how to block and punch or kick the opponent, your practicing how to block, kick or punch the air.
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You must become more than just a man in the mind of your opponent. -Henri Ducard |
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Fearun9033
Yellow Belt
Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 90
Location: Montreal, Canada
Styles: Shotokan Karate-do - 2nd kyu
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Throwdown0850 wrote: |
True but doin kata and then actually applying the techniques on a resisting opponent is two separate things, that way your actually fighting somebody. cause in a kata your not practicing how to block and punch or kick the opponent, your practicing how to block, kick or punch the air. |
I understand that they are completely different things. And I agree too, I've been in that situation. However, like I said, if you are doing the Katas as if you are fighting an opponent, the katas help your technique become more powerful and your kumite will improve. So yes, we are kicking and punching "air", but like my sensei says:
"If your spirit is there, the only difference between air and an opponent is that one of them will be in pain at the end of your technique."
Also, I dunno about your dojo/style, but my sensei never teaches us to "block" in the traditional sense. We all imagine that an incoming punch to the face should be met with a stance going backwards using an upward block to block the opponent's wrist.
I have always been taught that, should an opponent throw a punch, you go FORWARD, into his space. You shove your knee somewhere close to his crotch (to undo his balance) and your upward block now actually becomes an upper strike directed under his shoulder or skull.
It is a very intimidating thing to do because instinct tells us to back away from danger. But once mastered, this can be deadly.
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:17 am Post subject: |
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Fearun, that's a pretty good call. Going on the offensive is almost always more advantageous in situations that call for a response than settling into a defensive mindest.
This lets you press the activity and take the mental edge in the conflict rather than get put on your heels so to speak. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16427
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:04 am Post subject: |
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My Dai-Soke says this about a resisting opponent...
"If your opponent can resist you; your Karate is no good! If your Karate is good; opponent can't resist you!" His intent and meaning should be easy enough to understand.
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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I see the intent and point of the saying sensei8 and think I'd agree with the ideal that it puts forth. However, I think that acknowledge needs to be made that it's a training mindset that leads to oerwhealming force application to defeat the bad guy. At least that's how I'd see it. It's mindset training.
The reality of the bad guy resisiting, and often resiting hard, no matter how good your skill set is needs to be addressed as well. This way, you condiiont hte student to build into his brain that he will dominate his aggressor, and he will do it no matter the level of resistance against him. He will continue to assert his skills until domination no matter how much resistace continues to come to bear agaiinst him.
To often, espically with young or new students, they start to feel that the above statement is literal and that they will instanly dominate a situation with skill. Then, when faced with a determined and aggressive bad guy, they mentally ge thrown for a loop.
Too literal of a translation without proper frame of reference, can set them up for failure. Still, they must believe and be willing to press the initiative until they make the statement true. |
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piemanp
White Belt
Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Posts: 2
Location: UK
Styles: Shotokan,GoJu, Mixed Martial arts
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| Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: If you was to fight today? |
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| Throwdown0850 wrote: |
what would happen if you was to get in a fight today? Do you think the techniques you have learned are going to possibly save your life? I was reading a post in the sports section about Kiai'ing and kata's and I got to thinking, what if a person, could be anybody was to fight today using that knowledge? its just my opinion but, people spend as much as a hundred or more a month to learn something that wont even save them? just to get floored by a thug. wouldn't that just be a false sense of security? I mean can an instructor really look into a students eye and say "yeah that high block will work" or "this low block will work". when really, its just going to get your arm hurt regardless of the amount of conditioning and have a flurry of fists following it. let me remind you that this IS NOT a MA vs MA thread. because I believe you should do whatever makes you happy BUT I just want to know your thoughts on the matter? maybe somebody that is a LEO can shed some light here.
I will go first.
I have studied Judo, and in Judo some of you know that the randori is with a fully resistant opponent, not the lunge punch or hold my arm out while the other guy beats the tar out of me. and I believe that you will never know if your technique will work unless you are using it against a fully resistant opponent, wouldn't you agree? |
In my opinion I think that if you have a good club/school/instructor you should be testing regularly with "real" intensity or resistant partners.The sad thing is there are many "family/fun for all" Clubs that are not taking the Art seriously as a deadly art. However the nature of striking arts is that you will get knocked out very quickly in training if it was full on every session! Western boxers dont fight every session, they shaddow box, work the bag, hit pads, skip etc. This does not mean when the time comes the "realism" is un obtainable. Also much of the Kata "Bunkai" is to break and severely damage pressure points,joints and limbs, again you could not practice this with a resistant partner as they would be severely hurt.
I have been in several real life confrontations and I can thankfully say my training (predominantly Shotokan/GoJu Karate) Kicked some Butt!
My 2 pence worth anyhow! Good thought provoking discussion!
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ninjanurse
KF VIP
Joined: 13 Feb 2003
Posts: 6154
Location: Upstate NY
Styles: TKD;Shotokan;JuJitsu;Tai Ji
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| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| Fearun9033 wrote: |
But I think the most important thing about kata is that as you practice the sequence, those sequences get reflexive and second nature.
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I agree here. The key is patterning the body/mind connection through consistent repetition...it becomes second nature.
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"A Black Belt is only the beginning."
Heidi-A student of the arts
Tae Kwon Do,Shotokan,Ju Jitsu,Modern Arnis
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 3025
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Of course you need to practice it against a resisting opponent. Not to do so is to say you can hit a home run because you know how to swing a bat, but you've never tried to actually hit a ball.
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"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenius." |
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on the post.
