If you was to fight today?

Throwdown0850 · Brown Belt

what would happen if you was to get in a fight today? Do you think the techniques you have learned are going to possibly save your life? I was reading a post in the sports section about Kiai'ing and kata's and I got to thinking, what if a person, could be anybody was to fight today using that knowledge? its just my opinion but, people spend as much as a hundred or more a month to learn something that wont even save them? just to get floored by a thug. wouldn't that just be a false sense of security? I mean can an instructor really look into a students eye and say "yeah that high block will work" or "this low block will work". when really, its just going to get your arm hurt regardless of the amount of conditioning and have a flurry of fists following it. let me remind you that this IS NOT a MA vs MA thread. because I believe you should do whatever makes you happy BUT I just want to know your thoughts on the matter? maybe somebody that is a LEO can shed some light here.

I will go first.

I have studied Judo, and in Judo some of you know that the randori is with a fully resistant opponent, not the lunge punch or hold my arm out while the other guy beats the tar out of me. and I believe that you will never know if your technique will work unless you are using it against a fully resistant opponent, wouldn't you agree?
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You must become more than just a man in the mind of your opponent. -Henri Ducard

tallgeese · Black Belt

I am, actaully, very comfortable with using what I've learned in an altercation today if needed. As an active LEO, I get the opportunity to put into practice things I train on with a certain regularity.

Yes, I do think that that realistic training, sometimes against a fully resistive subject is helpful in determining if what you're putting together will work. There are training methods that prepare one better for conflict than others, and some scholls do better at using these than others, even within styles. I also think this needs to be done saftly and in a building progression.

I also think that the steps towards this need to start sooner, rather than later, in a students career to minimize the time in needed to get up to a basic level of preparedness. Limited engagement work across a wide variety of situations can greatly help in working new students into the needed mindset quickly.

On mindset, despite much talk of mental disclipline in the arts, I see too few artist that just haven't the mental jump into an aggressive pattern. They just aren't training vs. realistic attacks or sheer aggression. This is often the overwhelming factor in conflict and where traditionally trained ma-ists are prone to fail. It's this, more than technique that fails people. By extension, it's the instuctors failing their students when they don't addresss the ugly realitys of combat with students.

I think it's a good topic, certainly one that needs discussed more. If nothing else, it's something that every ma-ist needs to honestly ask themselves. GThen, if that's why you're into ma's you need to deal with the outcome of that answer.

Lupin1 · Black Belt

As a woman, I think I'm more likely to get grabbed than punched and I can say from experience that the grab releases I've been taught are extremely effective in releasing myself from grabs (I've had to use them a few times). I'm just around a 6th kyu, so I probably wouldn't be confident with using my karate if a 250 lb six foot man attacked me, but I'd be confident against the people most likely to attack me-- probably other women wanting a cat fight. And I could probably beat any of them on brute strength alone (I'm big and strong for a woman). But my instructor likes to keep things practical. He teaches us the traditional stuff but then he says things like "if someone really did this to me, I wouldn't bother trying to do anything as fancy as that-- I'd just try to gouge their eyes out" and he teaches us things like gouging the eyes out or pushing right under where the adam's apple is on a man as hard as you can or kicking a guy in the nuts or other things that are more practical and harder to screw up in a real fight. And of course he tells us that we should never stand and fight if we have another option-- always do as little as you need to to allow you to get the heck out of there safely.

JusticeZero · Black Belt

I dunno - eye gouges and groin kicks can be surprisingly hard to sink under a lot of situations. Mind you, i'm not female, so my model attacker probably doesn't immobilize and bind themself with grabbing and holding and the like as much as yours do.
I know from experience that my flinch reaction is to go sideways and cover - which is a standard body position from which a lot of techniques come - so I spent a bit more time working techniques that start in that position. I also don't think 'I'll grab the wrist'; rather, I have responses that may or may not involve the limb, in a 'contact somewhere along this limb and if your fingers wrap around it then bonus!' sort of fashion, and I can work good outcomes - flight or arrest, more the former than the latter - from either.
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"Anything worth doing is worth doing badly." - Baleia

The BB of C · Black Belt

I think I would do okay. I know that I work really well in close range. I've got a relatively good understanding of generating power from that range in both hand strikes, elbows, knees and kicks. Recently I've been getting better at using my shins against the thighs. My throws have gotten a lot better since I started Judo.
Attacking an opponent anatomically is a great idea. But the key is to not to rely solely on them. "Biting is a great way out of a close quarters situation such as [grappling]. But do not plan on biting. That is a good way to loose your teeth." In short, take what's available. Don't go for the ribs, groin, face, head, neck, joints, throws or sweeps unless you see them open and they happen to be within the flow of movement you're already in. Otherwise you have to waste time switching your strategy which can involve changing your range (which I don't believe should be done unless moving to a different angle and striking at the same time), changing your stance, or taking your eyes off the target.

sensei8 · KF Sensei

I'm complete in my totality! Bruce Lee once said..."Any technique, however worthy and desirable, becomes a disease when the mind is obsessed with it."--- I echo his words sincerely exactly!

Sure, there are things that I've learnt over the countless years in my style that I'd not even do in the streets for reasons that are personal to me. Every style of the martial arts has things of it that are simply just "stuff" and in that, the true martial arts aspect doesn't even exist.

Believing in myself, and I do, must be first and foremost in my being able to defend myself/family/friends. Believeing in my style, and I do, is secondary in that I must be aware of who I am. I must be honest with myself...at all times...about everything!

Will I 'win' every situation on the streets...NO! I'm a falable person and in that I can't 'win' all of the time. I don't bring my rank/title to a fight! I bring my heart and my will to survive, but, I also bring my knowledge and experience to bear positive fruits.

After all is said and done...I just don't worry about 'it', whatever 'it' might be!

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**Proof is on the floor!!!

tallgeese · Black Belt

To Throwdown's original question, how does everyone else feel about training vs. resistive opponents?

Like I said, I think it's a highly important aspect. Obviously, most grappling arts are based around "live" components to the training. Beyond that, what is everyone doing?

Aside from hard sparring, which I think should be done at least from time to time, here are some I like:

-Defining an attacker and defender during sparring.
-Utilizing joint manip in conjunction with sparring.
-Ditching sparring altogether and defining and attacker and defender. Armor the attacker up and have him really attack, like actual people attack.
-Make sure that he's attacking in spontaneous patterns.
-Even prior to full armor in the attacker/defend drill, use spontanous attack during training for technique.
-Use grabbing motions and attacks during trainign that are realistic in manner and delivered with intent.
-If you're not sure what that looks like, do some research. Talk to cops, get some assault videos. This is actually good research. We break down officer safety videos from dash cams in LE to learn trends and streamline tactics. As ma instructors it's good to do the same.
-Actually test the assumptions made from the last point agaist realistic simulations.

There's some of my thought on the subject. Anyone else, this is a great venue to pick up ideas. Great post again, Throwdown.

Throwdown0850 · Brown Belt

DWx · Black Belt

Having a resistive partner is one area where I really envy you BJJ/grappling guys. Because of what you're doing in some cases I think its a lot easier for you to practice against a fully resistive opponent? In striking styles probably not so much. Unless you have access to full body armour you can't go all out on each other and even if you have the armour is usually restrictive so you can't move as freely as without it. Obviously there is still a restriction on how much force you can apply but still I think there is a lot more resistive element to grappling than the type of work you can do if you're mainly a striker.

As for training methods? Having an angry hormonal teenage sibling is definitely the way to go.

Always trying to put joint locks and holds on each other, mostly unprovoked and spontaneous, and of course, neither of us is particularly compliant. Same sorta thing goes on in sparring, we both hit hard and don't back down. On a more serious note, having training partners that you trust and know well enough to be able to crank the contact and intensity up is a must I think if you want to train for SD seriously.

I like tallgeese's list of stuff. I would add multiple attacker work though. If you are serious about self defense you have to include the possibility of getting attacked by more than one person and know sort of how you'd deal with it. Also worth sometimes doing stuff where there are guys on your side too vs the attackers. Just being aware of who's where and what's going on can be a bit overwhelming if you've never done it before. I think its also worth doing in all these things in environments where you might get into a fight; enclosed spaces, poorer lighting, that sort of thing.

In answer to the original question, if I was in a fight? I'd like to think I'd come off pretty well. Truth is though that although I think I'm aware of what to do and how to do it for SD, its really not my main focus in MA at the moment. I'm more into the competitive side right now. Having said that, our sport sparring is pretty hard and I know what damage I can do with my gear on so without the gear maybe I'd do ok.
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius

Lupin1 · Black Belt

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