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devil dog
Orange Belt
Joined: 07 Dec 2013
Posts: 153
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Shorin Ryu, Isshin Ryu, Goju Ryu, Kobudo Judo
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 Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: In The Hands Of The Unskilled |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
Martial arts weapons are often deadly in the hands of an expert but are more dangerous when handled by a novice; to both the innocent by-standers and MA weapon wielder.
Having taught kobudo for over 4 decades, I've learned one undeniable truth concerning MA weapons in general, as well as concerning kobudo students; a life can be changed in just seconds, both for the good as well as the bad.
Those who are unskilled/novices of MA weapons are their worse enemy because striking another person will prove to be much more difficult than striking yourself by accident, which of course, is much more easier to do and much more often.
Imho, the legal ramifications multiply expeditiously because they're more likely to injure by-standers than themselves by just playing with any MA weapon. Having said that, MA weapons are very dangerous in the hands of a skilled kobudo expert, but MA weapons are even more dangerous to the unskilled. Injury suits over MA weapons can have no good outcome for the unskilled in a court of law; injury is injury, no matter intent.
Then there's the other legalities; MA weapons that ARE legal. Well, there's not to many, if any, MA weapons that are legal to carry around on your person and/or in your car. If a LEO finds a MA weapon on you or in your car, you better be to or from a MA school and you better be prepared to prove it. If you can't prove anything...you're going to jail at the discretion of a sworn LEO. His/her badge has more power than your quick wit and guile.
Novices don't have the same respect for the MA weapon(s) as a skilled/expert would, and that's mainly because the novice thinks that MA weapons are toys...NO WEAPON IS A TOY!! It's a very dangerous thing and it needs to be treated with the utmost respect, otherwise one can by seriously injured/maimed or killed. Even the kobudo expert, must respect the MA weapon; getting cocky and sure of oneself can do just as much harm as the novice is capable of.
Remember...only a second separates one from awe/appreciation to deadly consequences. The MA weapon isn't a respecter of person(s); it passes its judgement without pause/cause!!
Please respect the weapon, seek a qualified instructor, and keep all weapons locked up for safety. Train seriously because a MA weapon is a serious thing!!
Having said that...I'd rather depend on my hands/feet over any MA weapon, even though kobudo is a big part of Shindokan.
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Extra solid post!
I agree with you 100%. We will not even allow our students to pick up a weapon until they are at least the rank of Nikyu and have the maturity level and coordination to begin training. I have a 2.5" scar over my eye to prove that children should not touch or look at weapons until they are judged to have the proper skil and maturity.
I was a guest instructor for a local school about 15 years ago. I ignored my own rule of not teaching youth until evaluated. Anyway the instructor there wanted to build a Kobudo class and wanted me to start training him and his BB's. Two of his BB's were 12 and 14 years old. Very immature I found out.
I was going through and showing them Kata and Kihon for the different weapons I teach. I would then pass the weapons around so they could look at them. As I was walking around and answering questions with my back turned to the 12 yr old Shodan I felt the blade (dull but still enough) of a kama cut my forehead. Apperently my situational awareness was asleep that night because from all account this child was goofing around and swing the Kama wildly. I was so caught up in helping one of there instructors with the Eku that I never saw it coming.
Needless to say I stopped going to that school and had the head instructor come to mine for instruction so he could teach his students.
_________________
Devil Dog
Godan
Shorin ryu, goju ryu, isshin ryu, kobudo. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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devil dog
Orange Belt
Joined: 07 Dec 2013
Posts: 153
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Shorin Ryu, Isshin Ryu, Goju Ryu, Kobudo Judo
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Wow, you were lucky! You could have ended up getting nailed in the eye. I think I would have had words with that student, and they would have likely been very nasty. |
I actually wasn't thinking of having words other than the expletives that were coming out of my mouth at the time. The chief instructor took control of the situation and confiscated the Kama from the young man. I was heading to the restroom to get something to put on it to stop the bleeding. By the time I came out the instructor had dismissed the class and was coming to check on me for the third time to see if a hospital visit was needed.
It actually did not cause too much damage other than the scar left behind but you are right a couple of inches lower and blindsville here I come.
This is why candidates are chosen carefully based on coordination, skill level, responsibility and maturity. I strongly believe that young kids (under 16) do not need to have a weapon in their hands unless they meet all of the requirements listed above. You are opening yourself up to them hurting themselves, someone else, our you. Not too mention the liability.
Years ago during a Iaido test I watched a Iaito blade soar through the air and come just short of stabbing a on looker.The mekugi had worn and fallen out during the demonstration. Again a younger man that did not practice good maintenance and was irresponsible.
Any weapon even practice weapons in the hands of the unskilled or irresponsible can be someones worst nightmare.
I just won't teach kobudo to kids.
_________________
Devil Dog
Godan
Shorin ryu, goju ryu, isshin ryu, kobudo. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16420
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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As it is your right to not want to teach kobudo to kids.
When I was a JBB, while I was in the 10th grade, we lived in an apartment complex just 2 blocks away from the Van Nuys LAPD police station. My mom forbad me from practicing kobudo. inside of the apartment. What was I to do? My answer, I practiced in the carport downstairs where my mom parked her car.
One particular Saturday, I went downstairs to work on the Sai's. I had not been down there long when a group of kids older than me and they started to make fun of me. At that time, I laid the sai's down on the hood of mom's car while I worked on a kata. I was imaging the things that I was working on without the Sai's.
One of the boys found the Sai's and picked them up. I immediately told him to put them down and to not ever touch them ever. The boys laughed and didn't heed to my words of warning.
I tried to reason with him, and while I was trying, all of the others cut off any escape. So, the boy who had the Sai's started to come at me with them. I yelled at him to stop before someone gets hurt. I was now cornered with him advancing, flailing the Sai's from side to side, taunting me to take them away.
Then he lunged at me. That was too close. I dropped down in a fighting stance and warned him again. They laughed at me the more. He lunged one more time, but this time more determined.
What happened next, it has stuck with me these many years. As his right hand was coming down, I executed a lead-leg roundhouse kick at his right hand...POP..."Aaaarrrrgggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" was all he kept saying. The others ran away.
When I kicked his right hand, his right hand went directly back at him. One of the prongs struck him in the very corner of his right eye, near his nose. He had dropped both of the Sai's , I picked them up and I went home immediately. I told my mom what happened, and she was mad at me.
About a half-hour later, a police officer showed up at my door, and the boy and his mom was in tow with the officer. The officer talked to everyone, and at the end, the officer said that I acted in self-defense, and he wasn't going to arrest either of us.
The boys mom was yelling at him as they walked away. I didn't mean to hurt him; he could've lost his eye. I just wanted to knock the Sai out of his hand. He lived three doors down from me. He did recover and he didn't lose his sight. Whenever he and his friends ever saw me in the neighborhood, they'd say hi to me, but that was the extent of their conversation with me.
I told my Sensei about the incident, and he did nothing. No speech, no punishment, no banning Kobudo, or nothing!! He just walked away!!
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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devil dog
Orange Belt
Joined: 07 Dec 2013
Posts: 153
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Shorin Ryu, Isshin Ryu, Goju Ryu, Kobudo Judo
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Sensei8,
your right that it is my choice and I realize there are very young kids learning kobudo. I do not judge their instructor because that is his personal choice and he has to follow what he thinks is right.
The decision I made was based on years of seeing to many mishaps and near misses.
I short story that I keep with me to this day. I was around 15 or 16 and was taking a Kobudo class with around 14 other students. We had been studying the Rokushaku Bo for around a year and todays class was the beginning stages of Kumite or I should say pre-arranged sparring.
The instructor was showing us the attachers moves and then the defenders. He released us to practice what he had just shown us. Two young men were practicing over near the back wall which had a full length mirror affixed to it. I had noticed them but did not have the foresight to know what would happen.
One of them hit the mirror cracking it and shards hit the ground. One of the boys in haste to move out of the way of the glass cracked the other on the side of the head rendering him unconscious. To make matters worse he fell into the broken glass.
This is an extreme example but I have a hundred more that make my opinion on teaching children.
I take safety seriously and care about all of my students. I tend to err on the side of caution. I would rather hold them back a little to make sure that they can have the maturity and skill level it takes to be safe than to take the chance that they are ready and find out later that they are not.
I can see instructor teaching kids the wooden weapons because there is less risk but I can't see teaching bladed weapons.
I also wouldn't teach Sanchaku only because I can't seem to keep from cracking myself with them and I'd hate to cry infront of my students. 
[Warning do not allow old guys to try new weaponry with too many swivel points. Injury is imminent.] 
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Devil Dog
Godan
Shorin ryu, goju ryu, isshin ryu, kobudo. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| devil dog wrote: |
It actually did not cause too much damage other than the scar left behind but you are right a couple of inches lower and blindsville here I come.
This is why candidates are chosen carefully based on coordination, skill level, responsibility and maturity. I strongly believe that young kids (under 16) do not need to have a weapon in their hands unless they meet all of the requirements listed above. You are opening yourself up to them hurting themselves, someone else, our you. |
I agree. There are some adults not mature enough for weapons work, as well.
Of course, there are also the newer safety type of training weapons available too. They can be a bit lighter than the real thing, and maybe off balance and ackward, but do provide an alternative.
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http://www.sunyis.com/
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devil dog
Orange Belt
Joined: 07 Dec 2013
Posts: 153
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Shorin Ryu, Isshin Ryu, Goju Ryu, Kobudo Judo
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I agree. There are some adults not mature enough for weapons work, as well.
Of course, there are also the newer safety type of training weapons available too. They can be a bit lighter than the real thing, and maybe off balance and ackward, but do provide an alternative. |
Yes I have had a few adults that I would not trust with weapons as well. But again that falls back on the instructor to assess a students capabilities and decide whether they are competent enough to begin weapons training.
You know about 8 years ago one of my students brought in a foam covered Nunchaku and after seeing them and trying them out I decided to try them out thinking that I could start teaching students earlier and younger. After awhile I decided not to use them again. I know they make practice weapons and they are safer than the real thing. However I noticed that students started to loose all fear of using them and in doing so started breaking good form that would keep them from being hit. When switching back to real weapons with the added weight they seemed to hit themselves more often.
To each his own but I don't use them.
The only practice weapon we use per say is the Kama, Yari, and Rochin. We use wooden blades in place of the real thing while they are learning. Once they more to the advanced classes they start learning with the real deal but at that time they have proper form and, knock on wood", I have not had a serious injury yet.
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Devil Dog
Godan
Shorin ryu, goju ryu, isshin ryu, kobudo. |
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Stupid and kobudo are two things that should never mix. That goes double when stupidity is coupled with immaturity. I remember a young teenage black belt who nearly took his own ear off with a kama.
The kid was visiting the dojo I trained at in japan and he decided to show off a kobudo kata he had just learned. He picked up a pair of kama without noticing an important detail. In japan, kama are a common tool sold in all hardware stores. The blades are more robust, heavier and always very sharp. Anyway as he starts swinging them around he stops in the middle of his kata wondering why others are looking shocked, and finally notices blood flowing from behind his ear onto his gi. He now has nice scar to remind him of that. |
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Montana
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 882
Location: Formerly Kalispell, Montana, now Spokane, WA
Styles: Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo & Kobudo
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| ShoriKid wrote: |
| To add on a word of caution to go with Sensei8 here, check your weapons. So check your weapons before you practice. It could save you a lot of pain and trouble. |
I just wanted to add something to this from my experience. Years ago I was judging a weapons competition at a tournament and a TKD black belt presented himself to the judges saying he was going to show his expertise with a katana. I always inspect a bladed weapon (katana, kama, etc) prior to a person doing their kata to make sure it's safe.
This particular katana was a cheap, aluminum (sp?) bladed weapon, and safe as far as I coudl tell.
So the kata started....about 4 moves into the kata the guy did a technique that caused the blade of the katana to bend about 45 degrees at tthe base where the hilt meets the blade. He stopped and look at it for a second, then continued his kata. The other judges and I were expecting the blade to fly off the hilt at any moment, but fortunately it didn't, and he finished the kata with a smile.
Before the other judges and I voted and gave him his score I huddled with them for a moment and told them that it wasn't his fault the blade bent, so please ignore that in their judging, and only judge him on the actual kata and technique.
He was pretty embarassed about it though lol.
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If you don't want to stand behind our troops, please..feel free to stand in front of them.
Student since January 1975---4th Dan, retired due to non-martial arts related injuries. |
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on the post.
