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Menjo
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 1786
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| elbows_and_knees wrote: |
here's the thing - in regards to damaging a joint, choking a guy out, etc., these things are incidental. I applied an arm bar, he fought and it snapped. We struggled and fell, he hit his head on the ground. without a witness, it's hard to say otherwise. I may not have meant for you to hurt yourself - I only wanted to keep you from hurting me. On the other hand, if I strike you, I obviously meant to do it. guilty.
murder is the same way. you can intentionally kill a person and get several years to life in prison. However, if you kill them accidentally, you can be out in like 10 years or less. one of my best friends was shot and killed, but the guy who shot him was actually trying to shoot someone else. Consequently, he only got an involuntary manslaughter charge and was out of prison in 5 years. |
Thats an exellent point.
Grappling seems to have a upper hand in long term effects in general.
The best thing seems to have a strong solution without having to waste time thinking, as stated by many others.
I think grappling is effective for these scenarios if you know where to go from.
_________________
"Time is what we want most, but what we use worst"
William Penn |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| Jiffy wrote: |
With that in mind, there are a couple of things you can do to improve your chances in court.
1) Use only enough force necessary to stop the violence
2) Make sure he doesn't know who you are when he "goes to sleep for a little while"
They can't prosecute you if they don't know who you are. |
One thing I would add is to try to get someone to witness for you. That is one reason it is good to travel in small groups.
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www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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glockmeister
Green Belt
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 490
Location: Pa
Styles: Haganah, Krav Maga, JKD, Kickboxing,BJJ, Judo
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:25 am Post subject: |
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The one thing I think you are missing is that the strength of BJJ is not only in the submissions but in positioning and the ability to go from a bad position to a better one while still able to fight even from on your back,
Talk to any BJJ black belt and they will tell you that the very core of BJJ/Submission Grappling is positional dominance, much more so than submissions.
That is what actually makes BJJ a great thing to know in the case of self defense because there is always a good chance that one or more agressors will get you on the ground. Your ability to move to a better position to either counter attack or get back up is greatly increased when you have a good ground game.
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"You know the best thing about pain? It let's you know you're not dead yet!"
http://geshmacheyid.forumotion.com/f14-self-defense |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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Zapatista
Orange Belt
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 110
Location: DeKalb
Styles: I'll loosely be doing BJJ
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| Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree with Bushido_man96 that glockmeister made a very good point. This thread has really opened my eyes on the benefits of grappling that I hadn't thought of before. Thanks for all those who contributed to the thread. |
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TigerDude
Green Belt
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 370
Styles: Goju Ryu
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| Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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People get sued or go to jail because they go too far in "self defense." It is the extra kick when they are already on the ground that will get you in trouble. Or the pre-emptive punch becasue "he looked like he waws going to hit me." These are the bar room-type fights that can often be avoided anyway by just backing down.
As for a mugger, tho, let's be realistic. How many people are mugged by someone without a weapon? If the mugger has a weapon, virtually anything you do to defend yourself will be ok, and if the weapon is a gun or knife, virtually no martial art is proof from getting yourself killed.
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If you think only of hitting, springing, striking or touching the enemy, you will not be able actually to cut him. You must thoroughly research this. - Musashi |
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Menjo
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 1786
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| TigerDude wrote: |
As for a mugger, tho, let's be realistic. How many people are mugged by someone without a weapon? If the mugger has a weapon, virtually anything you do to defend yourself will be ok, and if the weapon is a gun or knife, virtually no martial art is proof from getting yourself killed. |
All the time actually where I live. A friend and myself once fought with a group who wanted money, but alot of the unarmed attackers are probably in groups to compensate.
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"Time is what we want most, but what we use worst"
William Penn |
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Karate Dad
White Belt
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| glockmeister wrote: |
| there is always a good chance that one or more agressors will get you on the ground. Your ability to move to a better position to either counter attack or get back up is greatly increased when you have a good ground game. |
This is the best point made. With more than one attacker you do not want to be on the ground, or you'll need help getting up after they are done. Cross train in other stand-up styles.
I am not a grappler, but I train in it enough to know some in the case I do get on the ground, but I prefer not to stay there.
<added>
To get back to the topic:
It is also a very good idea to say, "Please Stop, I don't want to fight" or other relevant things that allow "witnesses" to hear that you do not want to fight or have to hurt the other attacker.
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Karate Brothers - My Kids Website - I am a Dad also taking Karate exploring more info for my sons. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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You know, it seems to me that in any fight, some will try to get you on the ground, whether they know how to wrestle or not. It is the driving force that one thinks that they can dominate someone completely if they can get them down, and set on their chest.
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http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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Rainbow_Warrior
Green Belt
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 359
Styles: Now : MMA/luta livre/Thai , before :Kung fu,kick boxing , boxing, amateur wrestling
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe try to lead people to the floor is part of the animal intinct.
I am very sad with the global politics about self defense....Decent people have always to think that probably can go to jail because killing an agressive bum
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´´ The evil may win a round , but not the fight ´´ |
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on the post.
