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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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 Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Most cheap lighters are made of flimsy plastic and would smash easily if you hit someone properly. You risk setting your own hand alight and getting cut by the plastic.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Is this true? |
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| The BB of C wrote: |
| Hideout wrote: |
| One of my friends told me once, that if you ever get into a fight on the street, and you happen to have a lighter on you, you should have it in your hand when you make a fist because it fills up some of the empty space in your fist and gives you a more solid punch, has anyone else heard of this? |
Interesting. But don't you think it would mess with the form of your fist? For example; I believe you want to have your knuckles foreward and your fingers pulled back into your fist as much as possible. Then put your thumb under them to keep that from getting in the way and to hold your fingers in place.
That being said, I would guess ( though I've never tried, I probably should) that a lighter in the middle would fill the gap, yes, but also push out your fingers more where they shouldn't be.
I guess I'll give it a try later and see what I can find of it. |
It actually does make for a tighter, more "packed" fist. Try it and see.
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The BB of C
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1264
Location: Orlando, Florida
Styles: Kuk Sool Won, Isshin-ryu, Capoeira, Brazillian Jiu Jutsu, Judo
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Does the form of your fist change at all though? |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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TraditionalDan
Orange Belt
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 166
Location: Sussex England
Styles: Shotokan Karate-do, RBSD.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:51 am Post subject: |
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I agree, if you were trained enough a lighter could hinder rather than help.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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TraditionalDan
Orange Belt
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 166
Location: Sussex England
Styles: Shotokan Karate-do, RBSD.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| A little bit, but not too much. Not so much that it is going to cause any more injury than normally punching the hard bones of the head with the fragile bones of the hand does anyway. |
I have to say that yes the bones of the hand are fragile when compared to the skull for instance.
But a well trained fist, (with the makiwara etc), with the structure behind it is definately not fragile! If the punch is executed correctly, it is then the skull that becomes fragile.
I am really not underestimating the strength of a skull, or overestimating the strength of my fist. It is about where you strike the skull.
Not only that, but holding something in your hand will not help to create the desired 'acute' angle of the seiken. Depending on what you are actually striking I think it could make quite a bit of a difference, but that is not easily measured.
Of course I am talking as a karateka, and for another style the fist might not be created so. Thus not making much difference in the first place!
But I just like the idea of not having to rely on a lighter, or other handheld item. In other words, to conclude, I think it is best to just train the fists as they are. As you may need to pull out a punch at an unpredictable moment.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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What holding the lighter does is allow you to create a tighter packed fist, because of the action of squeezing and holding the object. It also creates a more dense fist, enhancing the strike.
Hand=chicken bones
Head=stone bones
Not many people are going to be cracking skulls with their fists.
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TraditionalDan
Orange Belt
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 166
Location: Sussex England
Styles: Shotokan Karate-do, RBSD.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:45 am Post subject: |
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My fist, in my honest opinion will definately not be made tighter by grasping or squeezing a lighter (regardless of type), as I am already squeezing my fist tight anyway. The conciousness of the squeeze is not so much there for me as I have a trained fist, for an untrained individual the lighter may be of benefit.
Saying that, if the lighter is stronger than your bones, why are you not just hitting the assailant with the lighter?
The bones of your fists are going to be hitting the target anyway!
I am not saying that it is possible to crack the skull with the hands, (although if you include the jaw as part of the skull then I suppose it is).
But then, why not go for the temple or something, rather than strike a thick skull? (Unless you opt for a tetsui or other open handed technique).
The main issue I had overall, was that the 'seiken' could not be formed properly with something in the hand. I know all experienced karateka would agree with this.
Now, with a powerful straight to the body (not so much with a head strike), you need the structure of the hand, arm and body behind it. This is not easily done if the proximal phalanges (biggest finger bones) are not square on.
Not only this, when I strike with the fist, I am looking to make contact with only the seiken, and nothing else. I want to minimize as much as possible, the surface area of my knuckles.
If I wanted to do that with holding a lighter in my hand, I would have to rearrange my whole body mechanics.
Besides, how many of us can honestly say they carry around a lighter for self defence purposes?
All this being said, I think it is a good idea to use the lighter as a kubotan to attack vulnerable points.
As I have said before, I am speaking strictly as a karateka, my posts are only my thoughts on using the method myself.
I would appreciate it if any other experienced karateka can state thier opinion.
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 3025
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:06 am Post subject: |
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You should ask the Mythbusters!
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on the post.
