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Kusotare
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 574

Styles: Traditional Japanese Karate, Koryu Bujutsu (Jujutsu, Iaido and Kenjutsu)

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJ-Jitsu wrote:
Kusotare wrote:
el-peligroso wrote:
Yes, however all the groundwork in JJJ schools is very dated and wouldn't work against someone who is proficient in BJJ.


That's a rather broad sweeping generalisation.

There is Japanese jujutsu and there is Japanese jujutsu.

Most of the stuff I see displayed under the banner of JJJ is no more than poorly practiced Judo.

If however you are fortunate enough to be exposed to some of the koryu systems - you might revise your thinking.

Some of the ground work found in Araki-ryu for example is devastatingly effective. It's sole purpose is to arrest or seriously maim / kill someone.


In many systems (Takenuchi-ryu, Araki-ryu and Sosuishi-ryu) hand to hand Jujutsu is practiced but the core of their grappling is done so using a 'sho-to' or short blade (this sort of grappling is referred to as Kogusoku).

K.


It may be a broad generalization but it's also an accurate one. I've been exposed to a few jjj systems and all have been less than impressive with underwhelming instructors. Most of the problem lies in their lack of live rolling and full contact. In my experience a blue belt in bjj tends to submit a jjj
Black belt several times in a single training session. There may be exceptions. It they're far from the rule

In regards to "deadly" techniques that's a bogus argument as well- all techniques are deadly if followed through on. A choke hold is about as deadly as they come- and ironically as safe as they come too. It's just a question of time. It'd be less appropriate to label jjj techniques as deadly and more appropriately to label them as "exotic"

Have you trained in Araki-ryu?
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kusotare wrote:
TJ-Jitsu wrote:
Kusotare wrote:
el-peligroso wrote:
Yes, however all the groundwork in JJJ schools is very dated and wouldn't work against someone who is proficient in BJJ.


That's a rather broad sweeping generalisation.

There is Japanese jujutsu and there is Japanese jujutsu.

Most of the stuff I see displayed under the banner of JJJ is no more than poorly practiced Judo.

If however you are fortunate enough to be exposed to some of the koryu systems - you might revise your thinking.

Some of the ground work found in Araki-ryu for example is devastatingly effective. It's sole purpose is to arrest or seriously maim / kill someone.


In many systems (Takenuchi-ryu, Araki-ryu and Sosuishi-ryu) hand to hand Jujutsu is practiced but the core of their grappling is done so using a 'sho-to' or short blade (this sort of grappling is referred to as Kogusoku).

K.


It may be a broad generalization but it's also an accurate one. I've been exposed to a few jjj systems and all have been less than impressive with underwhelming instructors. Most of the problem lies in their lack of live rolling and full contact. In my experience a blue belt in bjj tends to submit a jjj
Black belt several times in a single training session. There may be exceptions. It they're far from the rule

In regards to "deadly" techniques that's a bogus argument as well- all techniques are deadly if followed through on. A choke hold is about as deadly as they come- and ironically as safe as they come too. It's just a question of time. It'd be less appropriate to label jjj techniques as deadly and more appropriately to label them as "exotic"

Have you trained in Araki-ryu?


I haven't, so its still labeled as "generic JJJ" in my mind. I quick google-fu reinforced that. Have any videos you could link or demonstrations or techniques?
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el-peligroso
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 34
Location: YYZ
Styles: Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, Jujutsu, Kickboxing, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJ-Jitsu wrote:
Kusotare wrote:
TJ-Jitsu wrote:
Kusotare wrote:
el-peligroso wrote:
Yes, however all the groundwork in JJJ schools is very dated and wouldn't work against someone who is proficient in BJJ.


That's a rather broad sweeping generalisation.

There is Japanese jujutsu and there is Japanese jujutsu.

Most of the stuff I see displayed under the banner of JJJ is no more than poorly practiced Judo.

If however you are fortunate enough to be exposed to some of the koryu systems - you might revise your thinking.

Some of the ground work found in Araki-ryu for example is devastatingly effective. It's sole purpose is to arrest or seriously maim / kill someone.


In many systems (Takenuchi-ryu, Araki-ryu and Sosuishi-ryu) hand to hand Jujutsu is practiced but the core of their grappling is done so using a 'sho-to' or short blade (this sort of grappling is referred to as Kogusoku).

K.


It may be a broad generalization but it's also an accurate one. I've been exposed to a few jjj systems and all have been less than impressive with underwhelming instructors. Most of the problem lies in their lack of live rolling and full contact. In my experience a blue belt in bjj tends to submit a jjj
Black belt several times in a single training session. There may be exceptions. It they're far from the rule

In regards to "deadly" techniques that's a bogus argument as well- all techniques are deadly if followed through on. A choke hold is about as deadly as they come- and ironically as safe as they come too. It's just a question of time. It'd be less appropriate to label jjj techniques as deadly and more appropriately to label them as "exotic"

Have you trained in Araki-ryu?


I haven't, so its still labeled as "generic JJJ" in my mind. I quick google-fu reinforced that. Have any videos you could link or demonstrations or techniques?


I just googled it and didn't find anything special about it.
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el-peligroso
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 34
Location: YYZ
Styles: Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, Jujutsu, Kickboxing, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kusotare wrote:
el-peligroso wrote:
Yes, however all the groundwork in JJJ schools is very dated and wouldn't work against someone who is proficient in BJJ.


That's a rather broad sweeping generalisation.

There is Japanese jujutsu and there is Japanese jujutsu.

Most of the stuff I see displayed under the banner of JJJ is no more than poorly practiced Judo.

If however you are fortunate enough to be exposed to some of the koryu systems - you might revise your thinking.

Some of the ground work found in Araki-ryu for example is devastatingly effective. It's sole purpose is to arrest or seriously maim / kill someone.


In many systems (Takenuchi-ryu, Araki-ryu and Sosuishi-ryu) hand to hand Jujutsu is practiced but the core of their grappling is done so using a 'sho-to' or short blade (this sort of grappling is referred to as Kogusoku).

K.


If any of this were true then there would be plenty of JJJ practitioners a run for their money at BJJ tournaments and that is just not the case. Pardon the pun but even a lot of Judo black belts can't even roll with blue belts at BJJ tournaments.
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guird
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 198

Styles: BJJ, MMA, Gongkwon Yusul

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's worth noting that a lot of the jujutsu referred to as JJJ (and I bet most of the non-brazilian jujitsu in the west), is actually european in origin. It's a western rehybridization of judo(including older, formalized techniques that aren't practiced as much anymore) and aikido, as well as karate.

since the germans were among the first to do this, some people call it german jiujitsu. it even has its own wikipedia entry, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_ju-jutsu

as I understand it, genuine japanese jujutsu (aside from judo, insofar as that is still considered jujutsu) is exceptionally hard to find.
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