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thaiboxerken
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2001
Posts: 1270
Location: Portland, Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2001 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi everyone. I'm starting this thread to get opinions on or about Bruce Lee's philosophy and martial arts. I am certified apprentice under Guro Dan Inosanot in Jun Fan and FMA (Philipinno Arts). It has been a great pleasure teaching people what I know, and learning from some really awesome people.
If you have questions, I may have the answer. And no, I'm not some kid that is trying to look like Bruce Lee when I'm training martial arts, my stance and techniques are mainl Muay Thai based. Everyone's JKD is different.

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Just kick 'em, they'll understand.- Me
Apprentice Instructor under Guro Inosanto in Jun Fan Gung Fu and Filipinno Martial arts.
Certified Instructor of Frank Cucci's Linxx system of martial arts.
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Karateka
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 22 Jun 2001
Posts: 786
Location: North Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2001 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think everyone has heard of Bruce Lee and his style one way or another. If any of you have ever read any of his books. then you realise that he showed little respect for Karate tournaments. He felt that they were just glorified games of tag. He thought that the Martial Artists in the West did not have the true teachings in the East. I did not agree with these facts. Although we do not know what the ancients knew, I still think that anyone from the West is just as qualified as the East. As for the tournaments, that may well be. It is glorified tag...where people get injured for months on end.

As for his style, good idea. It is very practical to real life.

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"Never hit a man while he's down; kick him, its easier"

Sensei Ron Bagley (My Sensei)
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thaiboxerken
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2001
Posts: 1270
Location: Portland, Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2001 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

depends on the karate tournament format. Point sparring is tag to me. A fight does not stop as soon as one person makes contact. Also, the rules in Karate tournaments can be very silly, even in the full contact bouts. I think the MMA format is as close to a fight as can be with Muay Thai being the second.

_________________
Just kick 'em, they'll understand.- Me
Apprentice Instructor under Guro Inosanto in Jun Fan Gung Fu and Filipinno Martial arts.
Certified Instructor of Frank Cucci's Linxx system of martial arts.
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Karateka_latino
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2001
Posts: 1299
Location: Panama city, Panama
Styles: Goju-Ryu Karate do; Kung Fu.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2001 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,
I think Bruce Lee did something great for the martial arts with this Jeet Kune Do.. I don't study JKD, But I'm a freestyle martial artist But i have read a lot about Bruce Lee, I own his books and I like his Philosophy.
I think he was advanced For his time and what he said decades ago its Now what most of the people do. Crosstraining and mixed martial arts.
Thanks.
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thaiboxerken
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2001
Posts: 1270
Location: Portland, Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2001 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just read the new rules of Kumite.. it's still just tag. Bruce Lee is still right about it. Attacks with the head, knees, or elbows are illegal. Attacks below the waist are illegal. Grabbing and clinching without first making a "geniune striking attack" is illegal.
Here is a real funny line in the rules..
"Traditional karate techniques delivered full-power can cause extremely serious injury, even death. "

A true "Kumite" would be in a MMA format with no points or time-limit. I think the Gracie's format of the UFC was the best.


_________________
Just kick 'em, they'll understand.- Me
Apprentice Instructor under Guro Inosanto in Jun Fan Gung Fu and Filipinno Martial arts.
Certified Instructor of Frank Cucci's Linxx system of martial arts.
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Karateka
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 22 Jun 2001
Posts: 786
Location: North Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2001 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we had sportsman start dropping on the mat dead, we would not have a sport. That is why we do not contact. Any Martial Art blow can kill. These ancient techniques were used to kill people. If we just started randomly killing eachother, there would be no one left to fight. True you would be a champion, but who would join such a brutal sport. He may have called it glorified tag, but if he wanted people to die, he would not get any students for his style.

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"Never hit a man while he's down; kick him, its easier"

Sensei Ron Bagley (My Sensei)
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thaiboxerken
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2001
Posts: 1270
Location: Portland, Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2001 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point is that these traditional Karate strikes aren't deadly. They don't even come close to it. It's very hard to knock a person out with a strike, much harder to kill. Even in MMA where there are almost no rules, there has only been one death and that was due to a pre-existing condition.

_________________
Just kick 'em, they'll understand.- Me
Apprentice Instructor under Guro Inosanto in Jun Fan Gung Fu and Filipinno Martial arts.
Certified Instructor of Frank Cucci's Linxx system of martial arts.
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Karateka
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 22 Jun 2001
Posts: 786
Location: North Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2001 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you ever studied a traditional Indian, Chinese, Japanese Martial Art. The application of the technique, the power, the location are all components of it. That is how these techniques are deadly. Think about it this way. When you hit your funny bone ever so slightly, your arm goes numb. That is because there is a nerve there. Now, the Ancients knew this. They knew how the central nervous system reacted to certain stimulus. That is how with the right technique, you could kill someone. That is what I am trying to say.

I know that this may sound a little hostile. I have no disrespect for your views. It is just when I argue, I play for keeps.

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"Never hit a man while he's down; kick him, its easier"

Sensei Ron Bagley (My Sensei)
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Apollo
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 23 Jun 2001
Posts: 22
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2001 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiboxerken, MMA has almost no rules? The new sport MMA as seen in UFC and Pride has dozens and dozens of rules. Some of these include:

No eye gouging
No kicking a downed opponent
No fishhooking
No small joint manipulation
No PRESSURE POINT STRIKES (They realize that pressure points are real and they are deadly.)
No elbowing to the back of the head
No covering the opponent's mouth for over 5 seconds.
No scratching
No biting


How the heck is this close to a real fight? In MMA, fighters know who their opponent is, train specifically for him/her and are wearing special equipment, (mouth guards, groin cups, gloves) in a real fight you can be attacked while wearing a tuxedo suit and carrying grocery bags?

The argument that MMA is close to a real fight is really weak, in my opinion.

At least tag and point karate practicioners (I am not one of them, BTW) do not claim to simulate a real fight. Not everybody wants to join the martial arts to become a fighter in case you didn't know. Not everyone wants to get injured, or risk injury.

This may be just my ignorant opinion, but I have never witnessed a street fight taking over half an hour, and consisting of two men basically laying on each other, with no strikes or grappling what so ever (Ala Royce Gracie and Ken Shamrock in UFC 4)

MMA is now better than in its "No holds barred, bloodsport, gladiator combat" days. Now it is a sport, and is MUCH more entertaining to watch and get into.

Just my opinion.
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thaiboxerken
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2001
Posts: 1270
Location: Portland, Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2001 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pressure points are real an deadly? Are you talking about Dim Mak? Get out, that's funny. Kicking a downed opponent is not forbidden they can even knee the head of a downed opponent. I'm not sure about the other rules, but in Pride-japan the rules are not many. Also, there are some true NHB fights held in the Philipinnes that are just nasty, the even do it with sticks. These fights have been happening since before UFC. I would like to go back to the early UFC rules of NHB.
Anyway, it's much easier to kill a person than to subdue them. But to knock them out with a punch isn't as hard as killing with a strike pressure point or not.
Karate tournaments are still tag and I don't see any real application for it.
At least a MMA competitor can actually fight in a street brawl.

_________________
Just kick 'em, they'll understand.- Me
Apprentice Instructor under Guro Inosanto in Jun Fan Gung Fu and Filipinno Martial arts.
Certified Instructor of Frank Cucci's Linxx system of martial arts.
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