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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16427
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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 Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:08 am Post subject: Just How Thick Is Your Skin?!? |
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When someone's reply to you is...
"I disagree!!"
To you, does that mean that that person is telling you that you're methodology is dead wrong??
To me, "I disagree" is akin to saying "but".
"I completely understand what you're saying, BUT..." It's that "BUT" that negates anything mentioned before "BUT" was ever uttered.
"I completely understand what you're saying, however, I disagree!!" Well, "however" is akin to "BUT", in which births "I disagree"!!
Your thoughts, please!!
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:15 am Post subject: |
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The people to fear are not those who disagree with you, but those who disagree with you and are too cowardly to let you know.
Napoleon Bonaparte |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:43 am Post subject: |
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A person can fight or cannot. I'm positive a lot of people who are seriously thinking about fighting would disagree but I'm not really concerned about them.
Last edited by Alan Armstrong on Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Shizentai
Green Belt
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 417
Styles: karate
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:50 am Post subject: |
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This is an interesting topic. My default is probably to be reflective of the other person's tone in these matters:
- meeting kindness with kindness
- meeting interested debate with more interested debate
- and I admittedly enjoy trolling on other trolls as well 
Scenarios where I am expected to be polite to people who are rude to me, or where I am to "establish dominance" over people who are buttering me up, are things I can't easily do. I'd rather be silent than engage in that kind of thing.
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"My work itself is my best signature."
-Kawai Kanjiro |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Just How Thick Is Your Skin?!? |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
When someone's reply to you is...
"I disagree!!"
To you, does that mean that that person is telling you that you're methodology is dead wrong??
To me, "I disagree" is akin to saying "but".
"I completely understand what you're saying, BUT..." It's that "BUT" that negates anything mentioned before "BUT" was ever uttered.
"I completely understand what you're saying, however, I disagree!!" Well, "however" is akin to "BUT", in which births "I disagree"!!
Your thoughts, please!!
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I look at this as an opportunity to possibly learn something new or see a different side to things. Most will follow that statement with a reason why and explanation of their view point. Through this, it give everyone else a chance to not only see both sides and decide for themselves what they agree with but it also gets the poster's to think and respond. It challenges what we believe in and makes us think.
Having said that, it doesn't mean that we have to take their advice or agree but it does make for a good conversation and an exchange of idea's. The main point of the forums is for all of us, most with different back grounds, to engage in conversation so that not only we can learn but also those that are reading can learn.
I actually look forward to logical explanations that make me think about my stances. As a old Marine it's rare that my stance changes but it has happened several times since I joined this forum. That is a fantastic thing because it means that I have been able to learn something new that I would not learn tucked away nicely in my old school box.
That and it's not personal or should it be viewed as an attack or that they are saying you are wrong. It's a difference of opinion. It's what makes the world go round. How boring would it be if we all agreed and there were never new idea's?
If nothing else it enable you to rebut and prove to yourself that your view point is valid. Or not.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
When someone's reply to you is...
"I disagree!!"
To you, does that mean that that person is telling you that you're methodology is dead wrong??
To me, "I disagree" is akin to saying "but".
"I completely understand what you're saying, BUT..." It's that "BUT" that negates anything mentioned before "BUT" was ever uttered.
"I completely understand what you're saying, however, I disagree!!" Well, "however" is akin to "BUT", in which births "I disagree"!!
Your thoughts, please!!
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I look at this as an opportunity to possibly learn something new or see a different side to things. Most will follow that statement with a reason why and explanation of their view point. Through this, it give everyone else a chance to not only see both sides and decide for themselves what they agree with but it also gets the poster's to think and respond. It challenges what we believe in and makes us think.
Having said that, it doesn't mean that we have to take their advice or agree but it does make for a good conversation and an exchange of idea's. The main point of the forums is for all of us, most with different back grounds, to engage in conversation so that not only we can learn but also those that are reading can learn.
I actually look forward to logical explanations that make me think about my stances. As a old Marine it's rare that my stance changes but it has happened several times since I joined this forum. That is a fantastic thing because it means that I have been able to learn something new that I would not learn tucked away nicely in my old school box.
That and it's not personal or should it be viewed as an attack or that they are saying you are wrong. It's a difference of opinion. It's what makes the world go round. How boring would it be if we all agreed and there were never new idea's?
If nothing else it enable you to rebut and prove to yourself that your view point is valid. Or not. |
Very good points MatsuShinshii. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16427
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
When someone's reply to you is...
"I disagree!!"
To you, does that mean that that person is telling you that you're methodology is dead wrong??
To me, "I disagree" is akin to saying "but".
"I completely understand what you're saying, BUT..." It's that "BUT" that negates anything mentioned before "BUT" was ever uttered.
"I completely understand what you're saying, however, I disagree!!" Well, "however" is akin to "BUT", in which births "I disagree"!!
Your thoughts, please!!
|
I look at this as an opportunity to possibly learn something new or see a different side to things. Most will follow that statement with a reason why and explanation of their view point. Through this, it give everyone else a chance to not only see both sides and decide for themselves what they agree with but it also gets the poster's to think and respond. It challenges what we believe in and makes us think.
Having said that, it doesn't mean that we have to take their advice or agree but it does make for a good conversation and an exchange of idea's. The main point of the forums is for all of us, most with different back grounds, to engage in conversation so that not only we can learn but also those that are reading can learn.
I actually look forward to logical explanations that make me think about my stances. As a old Marine it's rare that my stance changes but it has happened several times since I joined this forum. That is a fantastic thing because it means that I have been able to learn something new that I would not learn tucked away nicely in my old school box.
That and it's not personal or should it be viewed as an attack or that they are saying you are wrong. It's a difference of opinion. It's what makes the world go round. How boring would it be if we all agreed and there were never new idea's?
If nothing else it enable you to rebut and prove to yourself that your view point is valid. Or not. |
Very good points MatsuShinshii. |
I wholeheartedly concur, as well!!
I don't ever value my point of view as the law written in stone. It's the furthest thing from it!! I don't know everything that is the MA, and I don't know every MAist!! This is one of the reasons why I've crossed trained for such a long time, for times just like this, to share viewpoints and ideologies that are different from my own as well as what's been taught to me.
I walk in the shadows of MAist that are far better than I!!
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:40 am Post subject: Re: Just How Thick Is Your Skin?!? |
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| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
When someone's reply to you is...
"I disagree!!"
To you, does that mean that that person is telling you that you're methodology is dead wrong??
To me, "I disagree" is akin to saying "but".
"I completely understand what you're saying, BUT..." It's that "BUT" that negates anything mentioned before "BUT" was ever uttered.
"I completely understand what you're saying, however, I disagree!!" Well, "however" is akin to "BUT", in which births "I disagree"!!
Your thoughts, please!!
|
I look at this as an opportunity to possibly learn something new or see a different side to things. Most will follow that statement with a reason why and explanation of their view point. Through this, it give everyone else a chance to not only see both sides and decide for themselves what they agree with but it also gets the poster's to think and respond. It challenges what we believe in and makes us think.
Having said that, it doesn't mean that we have to take their advice or agree but it does make for a good conversation and an exchange of idea's. The main point of the forums is for all of us, most with different back grounds, to engage in conversation so that not only we can learn but also those that are reading can learn.
I actually look forward to logical explanations that make me think about my stances. As a old Marine it's rare that my stance changes but it has happened several times since I joined this forum. That is a fantastic thing because it means that I have been able to learn something new that I would not learn tucked away nicely in my old school box.
That and it's not personal or should it be viewed as an attack or that they are saying you are wrong. It's a difference of opinion. It's what makes the world go round. How boring would it be if we all agreed and there were never new idea's?
If nothing else it enable you to rebut and prove to yourself that your view point is valid. Or not. |
Great points.
I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. I'm not right all of the time neither should everyone share my views. I'm always open to people challenging and changing my views.
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:08 am Post subject: |
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As in all communication, much of the way it comes across depends on how it is expressed. A reasonable person will usually not take of offense or get upset and defensive if the disagreeing party does so with logical points supported by a explanation of the reasons for the disagreeing.
Disagreeing for disagreement’s sake is what will enventually annoy or even anger many. Worse is when said disagreement is expressed in a crude, rude manner with aggressive and foul language. Any disagreement or criticism expressed in that way are always met with emotional response and either the other gives up and quite the conversation or it escalates and degenerates into a stupid argument. |
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:28 am Post subject: |
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I had a hard time responding to this post... The way I read it was Sensei8 was asking about the actual logic of what we say on a regular basis. It's frequently ignored that we say something, then immediately negate whatever it is that we said, yet no one really pays attention or cares. We also tend to abuse double-negatives.
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5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do
(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo) |
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on the post.
