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R5ky
Orange Belt
Joined: 27 Jun 2022
Posts: 117
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 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:17 pm Post subject: Karate as a official College curriculum |
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**Hypothetically**
Do you think a formal martial arts curriculum with divisions for various styles and focuses, akin to the option of obtaining an MA in PE, would be beneficial?
viewed "self defense education" as a stand-alone subject that is not a part of physical education or a sport club? but instead would have courses such as Kinesiology and PE as a pre-req thats included with the degree pathway
There are advantages and disadvantages to this, but would a degree from a prestigious university, like USC, have greater value and provide more opportunities? |
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DarthPenguin
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2021
Posts: 723
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 3:56 am Post subject: |
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Am sure i have seen things years ago about degrees in Taekwondo, so this might already exist.
Am torn as instinctively it strikes me as more of a vocational subject. I can see how you could gain a qualification in it but it strikes me as more of a (to use UK parlance) College rather than University qualification.
Also how would you pick the styles etc and what would happen with injuries? For a more academic subject you can still study with injuries (i had to plenty of times!) but if the martial art itself is part of the qualification then if you had a bad knee injury and had to take a year off training does this mean you would have to delay finishing the degree?
For me an academic course would be more like "Sports Science for Martial artists" with classes in kinesiology, biology, diet-related courses etc. Some history too. With the aim of producing professionals with academic skills tailored to the area and the martial grades being something that the student does on the side themselves (i imagine that most students in such a course would actively train) |
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Zaine
Black Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2243
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 9:54 am Post subject: |
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Beneficial to whom? I certainly think that a degree in Kinesiology with a focus in Martial Arts would be beneficial as it wouldn't specialize the student so much that their degree is moot in other fields of physical education. I certainly think that it would be cool, and I can imagine "History of Martial Arts" being a course, along with a requirement to take a certain tract such as karate or kung fu with requisite dips into other tracts for wholeness of content.
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Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.
https://www.instagram.com/nordic_karate/ |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16247
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Like Zaine mentioned, beneficial to whom and to what end??
A degree of MA History or similar from any accredited college/university perhaps won't be worth the paper it'd be written on. A MA History course more than likely would be in general terms due to the scope of the MA in its complete totality both as a history and/or its methodology/ideology.
The curriculum wouldn't be a simple undertaking to create and/or understand its complexity.
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30001
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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aurik
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 458
Location: Denver, CO
Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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There are indeed colleges and universities that provide a degree in Martial Arts. However, I am not sure what additional credibility that will give you that an instructor's license from a recognized style would not. What I would look for would be a university degree that will provide you with capabilities and knowledge that your instructor's license won't. I would imagine kinesiology would be a very good choice. Courses in business would also be a good choice if you want to run your school as a business. The idea of a university education (at least at the undergraduate level) is to provide you with both breadth and depth. Your martial arts teaching license will provide you with plenty of depth in your style(s) of choice. Use the university education to broaden your knowledge and complement it.
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My Journey (So Far)
Shuri-Ryu 1996-1997 - Gokyu
Judo 1996-1997 - Yonkyu
Uechi-Ryu 2018-Present - Nidan
ABS Bladesmith 2021-Present - Apprentice |
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DarthPenguin
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2021
Posts: 723
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2023 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| aurik wrote: |
| There are indeed colleges and universities that provide a degree in Martial Arts. However, I am not sure what additional credibility that will give you that an instructor's license from a recognized style would not. What I would look for would be a university degree that will provide you with capabilities and knowledge that your instructor's license won't. I would imagine kinesiology would be a very good choice. Courses in business would also be a good choice if you want to run your school as a business. The idea of a university education (at least at the undergraduate level) is to provide you with both breadth and depth. Your martial arts teaching license will provide you with plenty of depth in your style(s) of choice. Use the university education to broaden your knowledge and complement it. |
Yeah totally agreed here. The degree would be supplemental.
I have a family member who was a professional sportsperson and while nearing the end of their playing career did a degree in sports science and is now a coach. The sports science degree is something that i am aware of a lot of ex-sportspeople doing over here anyway, though not heard about many martial arts people doing it.
Maybe the difference is that (over here anyway) a lot of sportspeople coach when they are older, which is usually the same with martial arts instructors/coaches. When younger they are still fighting/training actively.
Person i could see benefitting from the course would be someone who has decided at a young age to be a trainer rather than a fighter themselves and this helps them develop skills (i'm ignoring the potential credibility issue with students) |
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Sailor Sindbad
Yellow Belt
Joined: 05 Dec 2019
Posts: 60
Styles: Kobayashi Shorin-ryu, Shotokan, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Karate as a official College curriculum |
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| R5ky wrote: |
**Hypothetically**
Do you think a formal martial arts curriculum with divisions for various styles and focuses, akin to the option of obtaining an MA in PE, would be beneficial?
viewed "self defense education" as a stand-alone subject that is not a part of physical education or a sport club? but instead would have courses such as Kinesiology and PE as a pre-req thats included with the degree pathway
There are advantages and disadvantages to this, but would a degree from a prestigious university, like USC, have greater value and provide more opportunities? |
I can't see this as holding anymore weight than a psychology or criminal justice degree.
Let's take criminal justice: I've heard many younger people talk about getting a criminal justice degree because they want to be a police officer. But most police departments require no college degree at all, and the ones that do don't care what your major is in. That frees up the young lad to get a degree in something else, so that he can spread his eggs across two baskets instead of putting them all into one.
And that's what I'm looking at with a degree in martial arts. It doesn't give you qualifications that are not obtained in the dojo. And what would a shihan need with such a degree?
There is a potential problem that these degrees could cause: just like the same jobs that high school dropouts were doing in the 1970's now require college degrees, some associations/federations may start requiring these hypothetical martial arts degrees for shihan licensure, certain dan grades, etc. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16247
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Many decades ago, I taught Karate, not Shindokan, at the Los Angeles Valley College, located in the San Fernando Valley in Valley Glen, CA 1975-1977. What I taught was a elective named Karate 1 (101) and Karate 2 (102) that was a part of the Physical Education Department that a student could earn 1 college credit, similar college credits as Bowling 1 and Bowling 2, which also earn the monstrous college credits of 1.
I was allowed to teach Shindokan, however, I was not allowed to use Shindokan whenever I was asked about the curriculum. Instead, I was to remind students that the style of Karate wasn't the focus of the class. Which was fine with me because students were there more for the college credits.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30001
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: Karate as a official College curriculum |
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| Sailor Sindbad wrote: |
| R5ky wrote: |
**Hypothetically**
Do you think a formal martial arts curriculum with divisions for various styles and focuses, akin to the option of obtaining an MA in PE, would be beneficial?
viewed "self defense education" as a stand-alone subject that is not a part of physical education or a sport club? but instead would have courses such as Kinesiology and PE as a pre-req thats included with the degree pathway
There are advantages and disadvantages to this, but would a degree from a prestigious university, like USC, have greater value and provide more opportunities? |
I can't see this as holding anymore weight than a psychology or criminal justice degree.
Let's take criminal justice: I've heard many younger people talk about getting a criminal justice degree because they want to be a police officer. But most police departments require no college degree at all, and the ones that do don't care what your major is in. That frees up the young lad to get a degree in something else, so that he can spread his eggs across two baskets instead of putting them all into one.
And that's what I'm looking at with a degree in martial arts. It doesn't give you qualifications that are not obtained in the dojo. And what would a shihan need with such a degree? |
Can confirm, as a deputy for 13 plus years, and being employed with a sheriff's department for 16+ years, there isn't much need for a criminal justice degree. I especially despise learning how to be a cop by someone who's never been a cop, and that's the big problem with the criminal justice studies departments in colleges; they are taught by teachers who have never worked in law enforcement, but have all kinds of theories and ideas about how to be better cops. All theory with no experience behind it.
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www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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on the post.
