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Bobby
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 40


PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2002 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many tecniques in karate look powerfull and hard, however do you not get power by being soft and being tense for a split second at the end of the technique.

For example:

many people seem to over use their muscles rather than their body to fire off punches and kicks.

Any thoughts???????
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ckdstudent
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 09 May 2002
Posts: 491
Location: Surrey, England
Styles: Choi Kwang Do

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2002 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You get power by being relaxed and elastic throughout.

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G95champ
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 3116
Location: Gilbert WV, USA
Styles: Shotokan Karate (FSKA)

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2002 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Power is speed plus techinque. I posted this idea below.

To get speed we got to be relaxed. Many times we forget about techinque and try to fake speed. In other words we look faster but we loose power because we forgot about techinque.

When you see these 90 year old masters they are so powerful because their techinque is thrown very fast. I have yet to see a Karate Master bench 400lbs.

Now thats not to say a person who can lift 400lbs can't hit harder than a person who lifts 100lbs but imagine how hard they could hit if they used the proper techinque and had great speed.

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(General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory."
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Bobby
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 40


PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2002 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, thats what I thought. Its just that some people seem to think that pure muscle will win their fight or strengthen their technique.
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psychospaz
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 88

Styles: Shotokan Karate Green Belt, Freestyle Shootfighting/Submission Wrestling

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2002 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

more muscle up to a point would give you more potential for power.
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ckdstudent
Green Belt
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Joined: 09 May 2002
Posts: 491
Location: Surrey, England
Styles: Choi Kwang Do

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2002 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In grappling pure physical strength can give you more of an advantage than in striking.

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searcher
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 08 Apr 2002
Posts: 269

Styles: Chito-ryu(Shorin and Shorei), Isshinryu, Hawaiian Kenpo, Judo, Ryukyu Kobudo Currently studying ITF TKD

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2002 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To address the topic of speed we must rememeber that speed and power are related. The Physics equation of f=ma is the one dealing with power. The ammount of force(f) is equal to the mass(m) times the acceleration(a). So if you have more mass you don't have to be as fast to be powerful and if you are fast you don't have to be big. Now for the technique part if you don't have technique you have nothing. Technique is what seperates us from the street fighters of the world.
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Karateka
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 22 Jun 2001
Posts: 786
Location: North Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2002 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Balance, everything about the Martial Arts is balance.

You must be soft and supple, but be ready to be hard as a brick.

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Sensei Ron Bagley (My Sensei)
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G95champ
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 3116
Location: Gilbert WV, USA
Styles: Shotokan Karate (FSKA)

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2002 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah the whole hard and soft idea is in the idea of the Yin and Yang or the Tiger and the Dragon.

You can not have one without the other.

Another way of thinking about it. Think of using soft techinques when you do not want to harm someone and hard when you do. This is a sign of a good martial artist when they can use techinques to protect themselves and cause little or no damage to the other person physically just mentallly and emotionally.

_________________
(General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory."
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Taikudo-ka
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 20 Mar 2002
Posts: 450
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole soft/hard thing is a way of trying to explain proper muscle control.

Most people do not understand how muscles work, physics or the way leverage and joints work through their body.

Thus, they do not perform as effectively as they could. Their muscles may even work AGAINST what they are trying to do.

Forget about the rest of the body for the moment, and just looking at the arm as it throws a basic straight punch. (forward, reverse, or jab - all work the same for purposes of this demonstration)

If you know that muscles only contract (pull), they never push on expansion, you'll see that all the work moving your fist forward is being done by your triceps. They contract, and the leverage of the elbow cause your fist to swing forward.

Your biceps (the big bulging muscle on top everyone shows off) are only good for bringing the arm back in towards you. If you keep them tense while punching, they will only work against the punch, slowing down the blow and causing you to pull back on impact.

This can easily be demonstrated through the Aikido "unbending arm". If you stretch your arm out, elbow down, with all muscles tensed, anyone will be able to easily bend your arm. Bigger biceps will only make it easier for them. But if you totally relax the arm, and tense ONLY the tricep, you'll feel your arm straighten more, lock at the elbow, and become very rigid. At this point, even a much stronger person will have great difficulty bending your arm.

The results of all our investigation into "how the body works" is that we can see that the biceps and all muscles except the actively working triceps should be kept loose when punching. On impact, the forearm and wrist should be tensed and rigid to keep the striking surface straight and avoid wrist injury or "collapsing" the punch. The biceps should never be tensed, even on impact they should be loose to preserve the forward momentum of the punch and solidness of the striking surface. They only come into play when you retract the arm, whereupon you want them to perform just as fast as the triceps.

You should also that the fast twitch muscles needed for speed are different from the slow twitch muscles you develop from things like lifting heavy weights.

From this scientific analysis we see that muscle tension should never be an all or nothing affair, but rather applied selectively for the task at hand. Overall, though, muscles should be kept loose unless needed for a particular movement or form.

I think the old masters understood this instinctively, which is why so many seem wary of excess body building, muscle tension, etc.

Notice my explanation does not rely on any mystical force or unseen energy, just basic physics and biomechanics which can be confirmed by any competent sports physician or personal trainer.
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