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The Greatest Disciple
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 37
Location: Joplin, MO
Styles: Wright's Kempo-Goju, Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu, Judo

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JusticeZero wrote:
Maybe on the general case, mainly because of the emphasis on contact and fitness that you get in the usual Boxing gym, but Boxing is just as stylized as Karate, with unrealistic elements (huuuuge gloves that alter the tactics massively and don't condition the hands for striking) and there are Karate styles that do some serious amounts of knocking each other around the room. (*looks for Ev*)


True, boxing gloves give you improper reach while in a real fight. They also prevent calluses from forming on your knuckles so that you may withstand impacts better.

On the other hand, I have fought a couple of boxers, and a front kick to the abdomen messes up their day. A straight punch has about half the force that a front kick does (generally). If a person does not train a limb, it will be weak in comparison.

More on topic, I would agree that your Tang Soo Do training would benefit from a grappling art. Okinawan karate would be more of the same, front kick, side kick, back kick, jab, cross, back fist. Learn some throws and gain new skills.
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JusticeZero
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: AK
Styles: Capoeira Angola

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The gloves also improperly change your target selection criteria. Faces are a horrible target to punch because of all the bones and edges, and the boxing guard actually has pretty big holes in it when done without gloves. The old school bareknuckle boxers had a much more Traditional Karate like stance with a lower guard.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28973
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

njd wrote:
'I had it noted by one person I dealt with who had trained a few things that the best combination he knew of arts was western Boxing with Judo, as they both used almost the exact same stances in most cases; as soon as it gets into the boxing clinch, you are in Judo's realm already in a proper Judo stance and position. Both of those arts are easy to find and affordable and have lots of contact and competition to test yourself with.'

That makes sense especially with the boxing. I'm sure that in general if someone trained in boxing and another in karate for the same amount of time that the boxer would most often win. They are more conditioned to take the knocks and also spend much more time actually fighting/sparring that most who do Karate. Do you agree?
As I said I;ve been training in TSD for around four years and wouldn't fancy coming up against a boxer with 4 years training!


Its tough to say a "who would win" percentage between the two. Both have different methodologies and training protocols. Boxers are likely to have pretty good wind, and are used to doing rounds upon rounds of drills. They also will end up sparring sooner, and learning how to deal with contact. But, like what Justice mentioned, the gloves change things a bit, along with the rules, but that happens in a lot of MA practices.

I'd say that if you are looking for the compliment for your stand-up, then looking into BJJ would be a great idea. You'll learn the importance of improving and maintaining superior positioning when on the ground, which is the key to getting up and then standing, which will enable you to use your stand-up skills, or to get away.

Also, welcome to the Forums. Glad to have your here.
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njd
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 19 Jun 2013
Posts: 17
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
njd wrote:
'I had it noted by one person I dealt with who had trained a few things that the best combination he knew of arts was western Boxing with Judo, as they both used almost the exact same stances in most cases; as soon as it gets into the boxing clinch, you are in Judo's realm already in a proper Judo stance and position. Both of those arts are easy to find and affordable and have lots of contact and competition to test yourself with.'

That makes sense especially with the boxing. I'm sure that in general if someone trained in boxing and another in karate for the same amount of time that the boxer would most often win. They are more conditioned to take the knocks and also spend much more time actually fighting/sparring that most who do Karate. Do you agree?
As I said I;ve been training in TSD for around four years and wouldn't fancy coming up against a boxer with 4 years training!


Its tough to say a "who would win" percentage between the two. Both have different methodologies and training protocols. Boxers are likely to have pretty good wind, and are used to doing rounds upon rounds of drills. They also will end up sparring sooner, and learning how to deal with contact. But, like what Justice mentioned, the gloves change things a bit, along with the rules, but that happens in a lot of MA practices.

I'd say that if you are looking for the compliment for your stand-up, then looking into BJJ would be a great idea. You'll learn the importance of improving and maintaining superior positioning when on the ground, which is the key to getting up and then standing, which will enable you to use your stand-up skills, or to get away.

Also, welcome to the Forums. Glad to have your here.


Ok, I went to Judo on Friday and enjoyed it! Felt a little humbling as I knew absolutely nothing about it but that made it interesting. I was the oldest there (30!) which put me off a bit but that meant I trained with the instructor quite a lot. He said that there are seniors who train but not too often so I am a little concerened that if I choose Judo I'll not progress as I won't have people my age/size etc to train with. It seems as if Judo appeals to younger people? I'm going to give bjj a try next week and keep an open mind for the next few weeks.
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2552
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

njd wrote:

Ok, I went to Judo on Friday and enjoyed it! Felt a little humbling as I knew absolutely nothing about it but that made it interesting. I was the oldest there (30!) which put me off a bit but that meant I trained with the instructor quite a lot. He said that there are seniors who train but not too often so I am a little concerened that if I choose Judo I'll not progress as I won't have people my age/size etc to train with. It seems as if Judo appeals to younger people? I'm going to give bjj a try next week and keep an open mind for the next few weeks.


Don't worry about the age gap--you can learn something from every training partner. Enjoy your training!
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Shorin-Ryu | 2010-Present: Nidan | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
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Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker, Adrian Rivera
Karate Obsession | Arizona Practical Karate
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jaypo
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 520

Styles: Shotokan, Shorin Ryu

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that a front kick to someone's gut that doesn't train themselves for it will ruin their day!

I think the best combo would be karate or muay thai and judo wrestling. A combo of a deadly striking art and a deadly grappling art.

I would personally pick Karate and Judo. But I have a bias for Okinawan/Japanese arts!
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2277
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If i were you i'd take up BJJ, especially when it does come to safety.

I wouldn't change from TSD to another style. But do both. If you have time issues then you can alternate with weeks at each.

But if it is too much for you to pay for both. then maybe do BJJ or if you want judo
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guird
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 198

Styles: BJJ, MMA, Gongkwon Yusul

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a lot of people have already said, cross-training striking with grappling is a good idea. I don't know about your level of ability. I left a bad karate school even worse at fighting than I went in, but more likely than not that isn't the case for you. Learning how to throw a fast and powerful punch will already give you an edge over someone with zero training.

Judo should complement your TSD nicely. It may also be a good idea to arrange some sparring with friends in your free time. I always enjoy that.
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