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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2146


PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:37 am    Post subject: Karate Starts And Stops With Courtesy Reply with quote

Karate starts and stops with courtesy, Is this how you have been taught?

Should karate training go beyond the dojo and to be applied to everything; including courtesy?

To not know or understanding courtesy well enough, then no matter how much karate training practiced, it will always be incomplete; do you believe this to be true?

Why is courtesy so important, that it shoulld be something associated with karate?

By attacking opponents first with courtesy, is this a good strategy?

I always thank the student/s after class for going easy on me, as courtesy can also be something unexpected.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14336
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If one's going to do something, they might as well do it right; courtesy is doing it right!! No since in being downright rude!!

Courtesy was taught to me by my Sensei and his Sensei, but all that they really did was reinforce that which my mom and dad taught me. What the Martial Arts, Karate in this regards, teaches goes beyond the walls of the dojo; Karate, to me, is life!! A way of life, not just at the dojo, but wherever I might travel, so does the maxims that which have been instilled into me.

A life without courtesy, imho, is an incomplete life, both as a human being, but also as a Karateka/Martial Artist!! If one can't extend sincere courtesy across the board in everything that they do in and out of Karate/Martial Arts, then that individual is taking a very long and lonely walk by themselves.

Courtesy doesn't have to be associated with Karate whatsoever, however, then why learn it...do it...practice it...teach it?!?! I've banned students because they didn't have the minimum idea about courtesy. I've spanked my children for not being courteous to others, no matter the age!!

Courtesy IS the best offense/defense; it can defuse a situation, and it can also give you that necessary pause before you have to take care of business.

Humbleness is courtesy, and this has been the staple for the Martial Arts for quite a very long time.



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JR 137
KF Sempai
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Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2361
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Karate Starts And Stops With Courtesy Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Karate starts and stops with courtesy, Is this how you have been taught?

Should karate training go beyond the dojo and to be applied to everything; including courtesy?

To not know or understanding courtesy well enough, then no matter how much karate training practiced, it will always be incomplete; do you believe this to be true?

Why is courtesy so important, that it shoulld be something associated with karate?

By attacking opponents first with courtesy, is this a good strategy?

I always thank the student/s after class for going easy on me, as courtesy can also be something unexpected.


I always interpreted the “courtesy” Funakoshi spoke of here as respect instead of the way we commonly use courtesy.

I’ve heard quite a few Japanese speakers say the language is highly based on context rather than definitive words that mean one thing. We have that in English too, although I think Japanese has far more of it.

I somehow can’t find Funakoshi’s twenty precepts phonetically written in English, but I’m pretty sure the word used for courtesy in it is “rei.” Rei has a ton of meanings depending on context, but everything I see are synonyms for respect or respect. Even the command to bow in Japanese can be rei. Think about it - “Shomen in rei” in the dojo is commonly translated as “bow to the front (of the dojo). What’s typically at the front? Pictures of the founders and other significant people, the school’s kanji, etc. Shomen can be “those that came before you.” Or it can simply be “front” uraken shomen uchi - back fist strike to the front.

Shomen ni rei can be “bow to the front” “respect the front” “respect those that came before you” etc. When you say “rei” it can mean bow, it can mean respect, or it can mean show respect.

Or it can mean courtesy

I interpret it as “karate starts with respect and karate ends with respect.” That could mean bow to your opponent before and after, bow on and off the floor, bow to your teacher before and after practice, etc.

I don’t take it that literally. I look at it as always show respect. For yourself, your teacher, organization, dojo, etc. It’s no different that athletes - be a positive reflection of your team, coaches, self, etc.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2146


PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be a fighting gentleman or person, having courtesy and respect, is to be something of having a thoughtful kind and compassionate character, a lover and fighter if need be.

Considered as possessing chivalry, with it carrying an element of elegance and education in manners of good or appropriate behaviour and fair treatment of others.

Commonn courtesy or civility keeps one's personal perspective on a level ground, with other and the surroundings, with not being overly indulgent or disrespectful, therefore being able to make sound judgments, from the out of the ordinary to the norm.

To be appropriate in familiarity, treating others with ceremony yet without pomposity, as returning what doesn't belong or to be treated and treat others, with equal amounts of respect, compassion, sympathy and generosity, that equates to displaying mutual courtesy, as with it we can all get along devoid of contempt and conflict.
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Fat Cobra
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 14 Jul 2018
Posts: 148
Location: Fort Drum, NY
Styles: Ryukyu Kempo

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Courtesy is important in real life as well as in the Dojo. I truly believe you should be nice to everyone, to include avoiding conflict if possible.

However, I believe in what retired General James Mattis said: "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14336
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Dojo is the melting pot for courtesy, and without it, there's no social awareness; just four walls and a floor and a roof...nothing else!!

Imho!!




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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2146


PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
The Dojo is the melting pot for courtesy, and without it, there's no social awareness; just four walls and a floor and a roof...nothing else!!

Imho!!



Brilliant response sensei8 to; Karate starts and stops with courtesy.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2146


PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"All doors open to coutesy"- author unknown.

The courteous learns his coutesy from the discourteous"- author unknown.
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Melau
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 02 Jan 2014
Posts: 60
Location: Netherlands
Styles: Wado-Ryu, Jiu-Jitsu, Boxing

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Courtesy is very important in a MA, you want to train with the intention of not injuring your training partners. You also want to expect / assume the same from your partners. You indicate this by showing respect and courtesy to each other.

On the other hand, for me it is also courtesy to train hard with somebody. You come to training to become better, and I personally find it an act of discourtesy if you do not train / spar seriously if the moment asks for it. Naturally there is a difference between practice and training, so it's not hard sparring / training all the time. There is always room for fun!

But show respect for those that you train with. That also means fighting hard, with a smile and courtesy. But taking it easy on somebody can also be disrespectful in as far as I'm concerned!
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