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Judodad_karateson
Orange Belt
Joined: 27 May 2015
Posts: 222
Styles: judo, boxing, Karate
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 Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 10:47 am Post subject: karate tournaments for a concerned Parent |
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Hey guys. I'm an old judoka and boxer who is looking into Karate for my sons. However, I have a few concerns, I was hoping you guys could help. I found a school is a reputable kenshin kan dojo that includes a once a night class that combines adults with kids (I'm will be taking it myself, and the bonding is a motivation of rme as much as anything ear), which is what I'm looking for. Price is right, Senseis and sepias seem like good people who know their stuff.
My concerns about tournaments. They aren't the end all and be all of Martial arts, by i loved them in judo, and I want my boys to have the same experiences(plus I kinds want to get back in on the action, I've been out of condition for over a decade).The problem is, I'm not seeing a big tournament curcuit in Texas. Maybe my google-fu is weak, so can you guys direct me toward some kumita tournaments(not form)? I don't want TKD, I'm a huge fan of Japanesse arts, but tournaments hold a special place in my heart, and if there isn't a big field of competition within driving distance, that might just be a deal breaker. What are the major, legitimate Karate tournament organizations in America and Texas? |
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2733
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Well, I found these listings:
https://texaskaratedo.wordpress.com/events/
I don't know if there is a regular circuit in your area, but there do seem to be plenty of tournaments in Texas, generally. The vast majority of karate tournaments will have both kumite and kata, so you don't need to try to find kumite-specific tournaments. As far as organizations go, I'm familiar with WKF, USKA, ISSKA, USANKF, all of which (except USKA) have events in that listing. If you're ever curious about the organization an event is part of, you can always contact the people running the event and ask them.
_________________
Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society |
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2358
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Same as Wastelander, even though I live in Australia. I know of the WKF (America ranks 16th), USKA, ISSKA, USANKF.
Many organisations i believe in America run in a similar fashion, so definitely check prior to signing up; often it is obvious when signing up as it will give you a clue by what equipment you require.
- The WKF Require competitors to have a Red Belt + a Blue Belt, since your doing kumite you will need to have the same coloured feet and hands.
- NOTE: the WKF Approved Gear are slightly more expensive than others, but better quality so worth it.
Generally all tournaments are both kata and kumite, but you can choose what to enter into. Very few tournaments will only run 1 or the other.
For you what is the maximum distance that you are willing to drive?
Where I live in Australia, the furthest I have to drive is from Richmond (the Suburb where I live) to Dandenong (31.5 km/19.57 miles). Those who live in Melbourne that are on this site know what site I mean is for the Alan Murdoch Cup. |
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Judodad_karateson
Orange Belt
Joined: 27 May 2015
Posts: 222
Styles: judo, boxing, Karate
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys.
I'd probably drive a good 200-300 miles from my current location, anywhere in Texas for the surrounding states. |
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2358
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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I usually recommend prior to competing that you train for a good 6 months prior to competing, because that will usually mean that you have graded at least once and have gained that necessary experience.
Because Kumite in karate is very different to other martial arts. |
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wildbourgman
Orange Belt
Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 172
Location: Louisiana
Styles: Shotokan/Shorin Ryu
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Well Judodad the bad news is that if your son's kenshin kan dojo is the same one that I'm affiliated with they only have one tournament a year in Tyler Texas and it's a rather small one. The other bad news is that many of the tournaments available are point sparring and kata competitions that doesn't lend itself to kenshin kan's stylistic differences.
I grew up going to AAU and Shotokan tournaments and it's sad but Japanese styles had a built in advantage over Okinawan or Korean styles in open tournaments because the judges in those tournaments were mainly affiliated with Japanese styles.
Kenshin Kan Shorin Ryu doesn't focus on point sparring at all and when they spar it's continuous action until the time limit is up then a winner is chosen. Point sparring is a different animal. Kenshin Kan's katas will have a hard time being appreciated in open tournaments regardless how well they are performed, due to more soft techniques along with much higher stances it's just not as flashy. Many people I know in Okinawan styles use the term "Sport Karate" as a pejorative.
Now if all of that hasn't changed your mind as it hasn't changed mine. I'm sure you can find AAU and other tournaments for your kids. I can private message you some that we have in Louisiana.
I have two sons and a daughter that take Kenshin Kan they performed well in the Tyler Texas tournament and I'm wanting them to attend some open tournaments, but I know that if they are going to really compete they are going to have to adjust to point sparring and tweak their kata performances in order to have a fighting chance.
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WildBourgMan |
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Judodad_karateson
Orange Belt
Joined: 27 May 2015
Posts: 222
Styles: judo, boxing, Karate
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| wildbourgman wrote: |
Well Judodad the bad news is that if your son's kenshin kan dojo is the same one that I'm affiliated with they only have one tournament a year in Tyler Texas and it's a rather small one. The other bad news is that many of the tournaments available are point sparring and kata competitions that doesn't lend itself to kenshin kan's stylistic differences.
I grew up going to AAU and Shotokan tournaments and it's sad but Japanese styles had a built in advantage over Okinawan or Korean styles in open tournaments because the judges in those tournaments were mainly affiliated with Japanese styles.
Kenshin Kan Shorin Ryu doesn't focus on point sparring at all and when they spar it's continuous action until the time limit is up then a winner is chosen. Point sparring is a different animal. Kenshin Kan's katas will have a hard time being appreciated in open tournaments regardless how well they are performed, due to more soft techniques along with much higher stances it's just not as flashy. Many people I know in Okinawan styles use the term "Sport Karate" as a pejorative.
Now if all of that hasn't changed your mind as it hasn't changed mine. I'm sure you can find AAU and other tournaments for your kids. I can private message you some that we have in Louisiana.
I have two sons and a daughter that take Kenshin Kan they performed well in the Tyler Texas tournament and I'm wanting them to attend some open tournaments, but I know that if they are going to really compete they are going to have to adjust to point sparring and tweak their kata performances in order to have a fighting chance. |
Thanks, just the kind of information I was looking for.
So how hard it is to train independantly to learn good techinque for points sparring? Would a handful of private lessons from a different style help? I want my son to learn full Karate, not a sport, but tournaments are just too fun NOT to do.
Also, I'd like to send you a PM for more info, but apparently there is a 25 post limit before a noob here can send PM. would you mind PMing me so we can chat further about Kenshin Kan specifically? |
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wildbourgman
Orange Belt
Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 172
Location: Louisiana
Styles: Shotokan/Shorin Ryu
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Judodad, I'm sure that private lessons would help, also I think the Goju Ryu systems in you area have some tournaments and that could be a closer fit.
I think your kids could pick up on what the differences are simply by going to a tournament, compete and watch. Once they take in and even feel what's expected they will figure it out. Kids are good like that.
For my kids I try to blend the intricacies and focused self defense minded style of Kenshin Kan Shorin Ryu with the explosive and dynamic aspects of Shotokan.
One of the main differences between the styles, as far as sparring is that kenshin Kan ends up being more back and forth in closer quarters and Japanese point sparring has more distance between opponents where you don't want to get touched by your opponent if possible.
Many people debate which style of kumite is more realistic, I think they both have flaws and strengths as it applies to in real life self defense. In the Kenshin kan version you get hit and you hit back and whomever did better wins. Because it's supposed to be controlled sparring there is no mechanism to point out the consequence of attacks you or your opponent performed. So in a real fight you may have been knocked out by the first contact, but in this style of sparring if you do better for the rest of the 2 minutes, you win. I don't think that's a good approach for teaching martial artist.
Now, in point karate, yes they do stop the action to recognize a devastating shot, but they stop the action too often and the flow of a real fight is never felt by the karate-ka. Often Karate-ka eventually get a feel for what wins points and that's all they do. I've seen very fast, very talented Shotokan champions solely rely on the reverse punch. The advanced point sparring karate-ka will eventually start and stop on their own, when they think a point should have been awarded and they pose with the reverse punch hand chambered as they back away from the attack. Now that's something you wouldn't do to a mugger, but how do you turn it on and off when that's how you train?
I would love to see a blending of these styles of kumite where devastating blows are recognized by the referee without stopping the action and where defensive and offensive prowess both are judged after the fight is complete. I think you would get a more complete picture of who the winner was without instilling poor self defense habits in the karate-ka.
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WildBourgMan |
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2733
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:03 am Post subject: |
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Ah, right. Kenshin-kan is Kise Fusei Sensei's system, is it not? Yes, that wouldn't really be geared toward tournaments, from what I've seen. Even so, it wouldn't hurt to ask the Sensei at your dojo about it, because a lot of instructors have varied backgrounds, and they may be able to help prepare for a tournament, anyway. If not, then yes, it may be beneficial to find a local dojo that does tournament-specific classes, and ask to come to those every now and then. I would say your son probably won't be as good at it as the people who constantly train for it, but his training will have more depth.
_________________
Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society |
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Judodad_karateson
Orange Belt
Joined: 27 May 2015
Posts: 222
Styles: judo, boxing, Karate
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| wildbourgman wrote: |
Judodad, I'm sure that private lessons would help, also I think the Goju Ryu systems in you area have some tournaments and that could be a closer fit.
I think your kids could pick up on what the differences are simply by going to a tournament, compete and watch. Once they take in and even feel what's expected they will figure it out. Kids are good like that.
For my kids I try to blend the intricacies and focused self defense minded style of Kenshin Kan Shorin Ryu with the explosive and dynamic aspects of Shotokan.
One of the main differences between the styles, as far as sparring is that kenshin Kan ends up being more back and forth in closer quarters and Japanese point sparring has more distance between opponents where you don't want to get touched by your opponent if possible.
Many people debate which style of kumite is more realistic, I think they both have flaws and strengths as it applies to in real life self defense. In the Kenshin kan version you get hit and you hit back and whomever did better wins. Because it's supposed to be controlled sparring there is no mechanism to point out the consequence of attacks you or your opponent performed. So in a real fight you may have been knocked out by the first contact, but in this style of sparring if you do better for the rest of the 2 minutes, you win. I don't think that's a good approach for teaching martial artist.
Now, in point karate, yes they do stop the action to recognize a devastating shot, but they stop the action too often and the flow of a real fight is never felt by the karate-ka. Often Karate-ka eventually get a feel for what wins points and that's all they do. I've seen very fast, very talented Shotokan champions solely rely on the reverse punch. The advanced point sparring karate-ka will eventually start and stop on their own, when they think a point should have been awarded and they pose with the reverse punch hand chambered as they back away from the attack. Now that's something you wouldn't do to a mugger, but how do you turn it on and off when that's how you train?
I would love to see a blending of these styles of kumite where devastating blows are recognized by the referee without stopping the action and where defensive and offensive prowess both are judged after the fight is complete. I think you would get a more complete picture of who the winner was without instilling poor self defense habits in the karate-ka. |
From what I've seen of the points sparring karate, the back-and-forth sounds like more fun, to be honest. What Organizations tend to use that kind of style for tournaments? |
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on the post.
