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AnonymousOne
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 27 Jan 2002
Posts: 812


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2002 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One needs to study history a little bit.

Shotokan has not remained the same at all. There have been many changes and what Funakoshi taught in 1921 is vastly different from what is practised today. The Kata have changed, the stances have changed, Kumite has changed.

In fact in 1948 things had got so out of hand after the war that Funakoshi got all his top instructors together to address the problem.

I have trained under Kanazawa (in a seminar)and the way he teaches the Kata is different from other Shotokan teachers. Only slight differences, but differences do exist.

One needs to thoroughly read all of Funakoshi's books to gain greater insight into the evolution of Shotokan.

But lets get back to the issue. Lets just take one example:

The Kata Jiin. Jiin means temple. Now does the word temple reflect what the Kata is teaching?

What possible meaning has temple to do with this rather nice Kata?

If you are not farmiliar with this Kata, down load it from here on video and tell me where you see the connection with 'temple'?

http://ctr.usf.edu/shotokan/kata.html



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ronryu
Orange Belt
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Joined: 29 Nov 2001
Posts: 199
Location: griffin , ga
Styles: Shito ryu karate

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2002 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I am in a totally differnt style however i was taught that jiin ment temple ground ,jion temple sound , and jutte temple hands (ten hands) Now im not trying to start an argument I jsut wanted to bring up that different styles also teach the kata as meaning things different as well . Not jsut the movements of the kata but the name and the meaning as well .
For example gekisai dai ich (to smash or destroy ) in ****o ryu we call this kata Chino (abilaty) and in most shorin ryu styles it si simplay fukigat ni (promational kata )

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AnonymousOne
Red Belt
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Joined: 27 Jan 2002
Posts: 812


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2002 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was taught a Kata by a distant relative of mine when I was in Okinawa. (I have Okinawan blood from 4 generations ago mixed with Irish and Scottish weird combination I know) called Arasu Yosai which means to "Lay waste or to devastate a fortress"

Studying the Kata one can see a clear meaning.

There are just some forms that baffle me as the how the names relate.



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Karateka
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Joined: 22 Jun 2001
Posts: 786
Location: North Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2002 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for the ones called temple, they may have been learnt at a temple or something like that. It could mean that the man's dogs name was temple. The fact is that we don't know. I feel that it should be a sign of respect to keep the names. You may have your own view of the kata, but in my opinion, they should be kept out of respect.

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AnonymousOne
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Joined: 27 Jan 2002
Posts: 812


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2002 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Okinawa they have one set of names and in mainland Japan they have another

hmmmm

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Jared
White Belt
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Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 13


PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2002 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha ha Dad. Trust you to want to buck the system. I am telling Kancho Sensei on you

By the way Dad, how does it feel being only an orange belt, I gotta tell Greg about this, he will crack up laughing LOL

[ This Message was edited by: Jared on 2002-02-19 15:12 ]
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SaiFightsMS
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Joined: 28 Oct 2001
Posts: 6397
Location: Ohio
Styles: Shotokan, Shorin Ryu, Shi-to Ryu

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2002 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Funakoshi began his work of taking the Okinawan way of empty handed fighting to Japan he changed the names for a reason. To make them more acceptable to the Japanese.

Japan and Okinawa were 2 totally different nations in the past. Many Okinawans resented the way they were made into a prefecture under Japan.

Some of the name changes Funakoshi made were accepted and remain. Some were not and the older names remained. Sorry I do not have a list of which is which right now. The most noted examples are Tekki/Naihanchi and Heian/Pinan.




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Jared
White Belt
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Joined: 18 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2002 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theres a list here

http://www.americanblackbeltacademy.com/ref-room/kataformsofkarate.htm

[ This Message was edited by: Jared on 2002-02-19 22:08 ]
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AnonymousOne
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 27 Jan 2002
Posts: 812


PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2002 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-02-19 15:10, Jared wrote:
Ha ha Dad. Trust you to want to buck the system. I am telling Kancho Sensei on you <IMG SRC="/karateforums/forums/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif">

By the way Dad, how does it feel being only an orange belt, I gotta tell Greg about this, he will crack up laughing LOL

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jared on 2002-02-19 15:12 ]</font>


LOL So this is what you did when I was away. You cheekie boy.

Hope you enjoy line work tomorrow, hang onto your hat

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