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IcemanSK
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 1084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Styles: Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My late Grandmaster (Edward B. Sell) began training at Osan Air Force Base in 1961 when it was called Tae Soo Do Chung Do Kwan. This was before the Kukkiwon unification of the Kwans, and the same year as the establishment of the Korea TKD Association. So, his training was the training of 1950's Chung Do Kwan. Since his mentors were GMs UHM Woon Kyu (Head of CDK since 1959) & PARK Hae Man (GM UHM's student & co-designer of the Pal Gwe, Tae Geuk & Yudanja Poomsae) GM Sell kept up with the current forms. However, he liked doing Bassai Dae (we just call it Basai) & Em Pi (we call it Yum Bi) that he kept it as BB forms in our curriculum.

A few years ago I grabbed about a dozen versions of Bassai Dae from Youtube from as many different styles as I could find (Shotokan, TSD, Kyokushin, etc) to see how each style did the form. It was a fascinating study. I was surprised to see the Kyokushin guys throw a head-high side kick where so many other styles throw a lower side kick.
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Luther unleashed
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 661
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's really cool and interesting. To Bassai Dae specifically Tang Soo Do almost always goes high in the kick. Most of the time it's taught that you go hight to show, but real application is low, generally. I look at it like that's te korean spin on a Shotokan Kata, Koreans like to kick.

I like your story because what it symbolizes most to me is an open minded teacher and do-Jang!
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Luther unleashed
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 661
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might be worth noting the style of TSD I practice most is actually Soo Bahk Do, we use a great deal of hip in our forms, and it can come across as less hard style sometimes. It's less seen on YouTube under TSD. Just sharing based on you researching.
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karategirl2000
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 16 Sep 2015
Posts: 1

Styles: Hwa Rang Do

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes
In Hwa Rang do the green belt form
Hwa rang in yung only has 2 kicks
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DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6443
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karategirl2000 wrote:
Yes
In Hwa Rang do the green belt form
Hwa rang in yung only has 2 kicks

Welcome to the forums karategirl2000

Do you have a link to a video of the form?
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29367
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I'd like to see it as well. I don't hear much about Hwa Rang Do.
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wilberbear
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 12 Oct 2015
Posts: 26


PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for Taekwondo, it originates from a Korean Kwonbub school called YMCA Kwonbub Club. It got mixed with Karate gyms then adopted Karate's Kata system. However, as for the actual moves, most Taekwondo moves can be seen from the medieval Muyedobotongji picture like here.
http://muye24ki.com/muye24ki/muye24ki.php?cat=2&sub=22
Even the reverse punch (rotating the wrist while punching) is there as well as the forearm blocking. As for 1922's Karate by Gichin Funakoshi, such doesn't seem to be there. That's because YMCA Kwonbub Club's teacher Byungin Yoon used to teach to Japanese Karate Club.

Also, there is a difference between the actual art & the sparring method. Taekwondo just spars with the kicks. It still learns & can do anything else like punching. It's just a way of sparring.

Anyway, Taekwondo is still mixed with Japanese customary like Kata because YMCA Kwonbub Club was mixed with Karate gyms. Unlike Taekwondo, there are pure traditional Korean martial arts like Kyuksul (available to North Korean only), Nalparam (available to North Korean only), Taekyun (always have been taught in South Korea).

Taekyun is similar to Taekwondo. Taekyun learns the art called Yetbub which strikes with anything including punches. However, Taekyun spars by doing wrestling with kicking. Think Taekwondo except that you can throw other than kicking. Taekyun spars like that. But they still learn everything else like punching in Yetbub. As for Yetbub having always existed in Taekyun, there are 1930's Korean newspapers vouching for it. Taekyun has been numerously recorded as Muyedobotongji Kwonbub & Subak.

If you are asking whether there was a Korean Fight Game that spars by striking with any body part including punches, that's North Korean Kyuksul & Nalparam. Even in South Korea, many forms of such existed like Pyunxaum, Gitxaum, Sibak, Nanjangbaksi, but they are not played today. In terms of South Korea, there is no sparring with punching today. North Korea is the only one today who spars with punching.
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Luther unleashed
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 661
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yuk ro cho Dan
YUK ro ee Dan
Yuk ro sam Dan
Yuk ro sa Dan
Yuk ro oh Dan
Yuk ro yuk Dan

These forms are very much Korean and less emphasis on kicks. In fact most Korean forms that are not of Tae Kwon do origin place less emphasis on kicks. If you haven't seen these forms check them out, very cool looking to me, and different.
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