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DominikDoherty
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 20 Nov 2014
Posts: 9
Location: Northern Ireland
Styles: Aikido

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:59 am    Post subject: Kubotan Training Partner Reply with quote

i have currently become interested in the use of the kubotan and need someone to practice with is there anyone around the fermanagh area of northern ireland that would be interested ?
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29283
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's not a tool I see used much anymore. Do you have someone teaching you some things, or are you learning as you go? I hope you can find someone to help you out.
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DominikDoherty
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 20 Nov 2014
Posts: 9
Location: Northern Ireland
Styles: Aikido

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no im learning by myself my aikido sensei showed me a few things with it today and even gave me a small wooden kubotan but other than that i only have my girlfriend to train with since i am going to show her how to use a tactical pen. its annoying though because the kubotan is effective if used right but i need someone to show me what is right
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Harkon72
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 1875
Location: Wales
Styles: Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Ninpo.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I train with a Kubotan, I have only used it outside the dojo once. A wooden one, less than 6" in length with no points or spikes is legal to carry. But please realise that most police officers don't know what they are. If you are stopped, it's a gamble as to what could happen. I know the law should be the same for everyone, but the way each individual officer interprets it can be different. They may see it as an innocent key fob, no problem. On the other hand, if you get pulled into a question answer session, you could find that they will confiscate it. Some zealous officers might even give you a formal caution. The real situation, as I said is that carrying the for mentioned item is not illegal. The way you would be seen by a judge is how you used it. Striking with a Kubotan of any material is illegal. In this case it is deemed to be the use of an offensive weapon. Using the Kubotan to press certain points of the body such as bones and nerve centres is allowed. The question the law asks is; "Is the person intending to injure his opponent? Or was the intention to control the situation for defence?" It's not an easy arena, do these rules change if you were faced with a deadly weapon? The answer is yes. Again, a court would decide if you had over done it in your effort to defend yourself. I'll leave you with a line a street fighter said to me; "It's better to be tried by twelve than carried by six." Train hard, good luck.
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DominikDoherty
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 20 Nov 2014
Posts: 9
Location: Northern Ireland
Styles: Aikido

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually use that phrase myself better to be tried by twelve then carried by six because if somone tries to seriously harm me at the end of the day I have my family and my girlfriend to go back to. I will do everything possible to survive even if that means killing my attacker. Thanks for the advice and I plan to keep up the practice =)
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JohnASE
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
Location: SoCal

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harkon72 wrote:
Striking with a Kubotan of any material is illegal. In this case it is deemed to be the use of an offensive weapon. Using the Kubotan to press certain points of the body such as bones and nerve centres is allowed. The question the law asks is; "Is the person intending to injure his opponent? Or was the intention to control the situation for defence?"

This is interesting. I don't think it's like that here in the USA, but I don't really know much about weapons and the law.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29283
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnASE wrote:
Harkon72 wrote:
Striking with a Kubotan of any material is illegal. In this case it is deemed to be the use of an offensive weapon. Using the Kubotan to press certain points of the body such as bones and nerve centres is allowed. The question the law asks is; "Is the person intending to injure his opponent? Or was the intention to control the situation for defence?"

This is interesting. I don't think it's like that here in the USA, but I don't really know much about weapons and the law.
Each state has different laws in regards to what weapons are considered illegal to have or not. Consult your state statutes to be sure.

As far as use of the weapon goes, what is going to be considered is the threat of severe bodily injury or death on the part of the attacker.
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LeighSimmsMA
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 10 Apr 2015
Posts: 37
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harkon72 wrote:
I train with a Kubotan, I have only used it outside the dojo once. A wooden one, less than 6" in length with no points or spikes is legal to carry. But please realise that most police officers don't know what they are. If you are stopped, it's a gamble as to what could happen. I know the law should be the same for everyone, but the way each individual officer interprets it can be different. They may see it as an innocent key fob, no problem. On the other hand, if you get pulled into a question answer session, you could find that they will confiscate it. Some zealous officers might even give you a formal caution. The real situation, as I said is that carrying the for mentioned item is not illegal. The way you would be seen by a judge is how you used it. Striking with a Kubotan of any material is illegal. In this case it is deemed to be the use of an offensive weapon. Using the Kubotan to press certain points of the body such as bones and nerve centres is allowed. The question the law asks is; "Is the person intending to injure his opponent? Or was the intention to control the situation for defence?" It's not an easy arena, do these rules change if you were faced with a deadly weapon? The answer is yes. Again, a court would decide if you had over done it in your effort to defend yourself. I'll leave you with a line a street fighter said to me; "It's better to be tried by twelve than carried by six." Train hard, good luck.



Hi Harkon,

I would like to know what evidence you have for the bolded option above. As a legal academic and career within the legal industry I have spent many hours researching the law in relation to weapons and indeed specifically the kubotan. I even wrote a book on law and self-defence!

I assume you are referring to the law in England and Wales? If so, I would point you towards the following ruling by Lord Lane in R v Simpson (78 Cr. App. R. 115). Lord Lane identified three categories of offensive weapons:

1) those made for causing injury to the person i.e. offensive per se.
2) those adapted for such a purpose;
3) those not so made or adapted, but carried with the intention of causing injury to the person.

The law, as far as I am aware, makes no distinction on how a weapon is used (blunt force vs pressure). If it does, please show me the evidence.

Secondly, there is no such thing as a self-defence weapon in UK Law. Any object made for causing injury, adpated to or not made or adapted but carried with the intent to cause injury will be classed as an illegal weapon.

[/b]
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
JohnASE wrote:
Harkon72 wrote:
Striking with a Kubotan of any material is illegal. In this case it is deemed to be the use of an offensive weapon. Using the Kubotan to press certain points of the body such as bones and nerve centres is allowed. The question the law asks is; "Is the person intending to injure his opponent? Or was the intention to control the situation for defence?"

This is interesting. I don't think it's like that here in the USA, but I don't really know much about weapons and the law.
Each state has different laws in regards to what weapons are considered illegal to have or not. Consult your state statutes to be sure.

As far as use of the weapon goes, what is going to be considered is the threat of severe bodily injury or death on the part of the attacker.


It could even be as distinctive as what county or city you are in. I know at one time if not still Corpus Christi Texas locking blade pocket knives were/are illegal.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15712
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
That's not a tool I see used much anymore. Do you have someone teaching you some things, or are you learning as you go? I hope you can find someone to help you out.

Solid post!!



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