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JCavin
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 88
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas
Styles: Kenpo

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judo is just a great compliment to anything you do, really.

You mentioned kata. As far as I know, kata are only done at the high level of Judo, especially if it is a Kodokan club. I could be mistaken, though.

One thing I liked about Judo is that the newaza stuff typically has a time limit placed on it. You're forced to attempt submissions, or vie for better position or you are stood up. I think you only get like 10-15 seconds.

However, this also tends to make a lot of people turtle up. Which is typically a no-no.
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tallgeese
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Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6862
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the rub with that. Everyone always assumes that ground skill integration means submission wrestling with the bad guy. In actuality, the controlling postures and ability to simply gain these postures is the critical component in self defense grappling.

For those skills, BJJ would serve you really well. Of course I'm biased, but it's a bias based on what I've seen work repeatedly in real world situations.

I know the idea of intentionally taking someone to the ground brought up, again, it's the controlling once on the ground that's paramount. Besides, Judo will lead you to exactly the same thing.

If you want takedowns for self defense, look at wrestling. Learn a solid double and single, then work them out of clinch work which is a common situation in sd situations. Work with a good wrestler and figure out a standing single, blast double, and a couple of other things that will capitalize on level change without dropping a knee to the floor. This will give you takedowns without turning your back for throws or picking up a foot for sweeping. Thus, you get to keep your base solid throughout the encounter.

OF course, Judo is great and if your interested in it study it regardless, just evaluate you needs and make decisions from there. I just think that if you're really interested in ground fighting an art such as BJJ (or even western wrestling) that truly specializes in it would be more beneficial.
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Jay
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 1190


PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tallgeese wrote:
Here's the rub with that. Everyone always assumes that ground skill integration means submission wrestling with the bad guy. In actuality, the controlling postures and ability to simply gain these postures is the critical component in self defense grappling.

For those skills, BJJ would serve you really well. Of course I'm biased, but it's a bias based on what I've seen work repeatedly in real world situations.

I know the idea of intentionally taking someone to the ground brought up, again, it's the controlling once on the ground that's paramount. Besides, Judo will lead you to exactly the same thing.

If you want takedowns for self defense, look at wrestling. Learn a solid double and single, then work them out of clinch work which is a common situation in sd situations. Work with a good wrestler and figure out a standing single, blast double, and a couple of other things that will capitalize on level change without dropping a knee to the floor. This will give you takedowns without turning your back for throws or picking up a foot for sweeping. Thus, you get to keep your base solid throughout the encounter.

OF course, Judo is great and if your interested in it study it regardless, just evaluate you needs and make decisions from there. I just think that if you're really interested in ground fighting an art such as BJJ (or even western wrestling) that truly specializes in it would be more beneficial.


Tallgeese offers good points about the merits of ground specific training. OP-You mentioned JiuJitsu but what type of JiuJitsu was it because they train differently, I just assumed you meant Japanese. Thats why I suggested Judo because in my experience in a typical class Judoka tend to Randori more on the ground.
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Akikazeninja
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 81

Styles: Ninjutsu Jujutsu Taijutsu Commando Krav Maga

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think all these topics about what martial arts go well together can sometimes not cover the topic of it doesn't really matter so much on the specific martial art as it does the instructor because I have been training in japanese jujutsu for a year but my instructor has a background in wrestling so he combines the two in our self defense class to make a great mix, but like they say in krav maga in a street fight they usually have friends so if you take it to the ground you better be ready to get up fast or get your head stomped
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luca61
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 04 Jun 2011
Posts: 16
Location: Santa Monica. California
Styles: Seido

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, to be the devil's advocate,sometimes the fact that grappling on the ground you get stomped or you get injured by broken glass, needles, rock and so forth is an excuse for not studying groundwork. Being realistic, with the adrenaline dump kicking in, the type of surface you are rolling in becomes secondary. My main concern with BJJ is that sometimes has an excessive sport component that compromises self defense attitude. But this is not for BJJ but for the many others MA ( Karate, Judo, Olympic Tae Known Do and so forth).
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tallgeese
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Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6862
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay, that's an excellent point. What kind of JJ. I automatically assumed BJJ.
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datguy
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 29 May 2011
Posts: 91

Styles: Taekwondo, Judo, and Kickboxing.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say judo. In my dojo, we apply a lot of judo to self defense and it's quite effective. In jujitsu, you really can't defend against multiple opponents as well as you can in judo. That's my 2cents anyways.
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guitarguy
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 46

Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys sorry for not being specific i was talking about japenese juijitsu though there is BJJ but getting theres the issue. And i do agree about the instructers having a lot to do with self defense but i would feel more confordent in combining it with a specific grappeling art to make myself feel more at ease. Also its only going to be one I'm not the type to start a project and not finish it. Thanks heaps for the input guys, much appreciated.
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JusticeZero
Black Belt
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Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: AK
Styles: Capoeira Angola

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say that the grappling styles being downed here are still extremely valuable. You are very possibly more likely to have to fight someone who it is important not to overly injure, surrounded by friends and family, than you are to be jumped by the "ninja horde" of criminals in a back alley. I've been focusing more on softer techniques for awhile - too bad so many of them throw the target on the back of their head.
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guitarguy
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 46

Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JusticeZero wrote:
I'd say that the grappling styles being downed here are still extremely valuable. You are very possibly more likely to have to fight someone who it is important not to overly injure, surrounded by friends and family, than you are to be jumped by the "ninja horde" of criminals in a back alley. I've been focusing more on softer techniques for awhile - too bad so many of them throw the target on the back of their head.


That's a good point because a lot of fights can be alchohoel fueled and the person is sometimes somewhat easy to stop and if they are a friend who doesnt handle drinking well the last thing you want is to harm them. That being said I think if people can't handle drinking they should refraim.

On a side note, lots of people since MMA has become popular seem to go for takedowns etc which is A good if they havent trained ma because they leave themselves open or B bad if they have experience in grappeling when you don't.
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