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guitarguy
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 46

Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:42 am    Post subject: Kyokushin and grappling Reply with quote

Hey guys recently I've been having thoughts of supplementing my kyokushin training with a grappling art. While most of my focus will still remain with kyokushin I want to strengthen it's weakness which is grappling. I'm looking at this from a realistic self defense point of view. I have the choice of aikedo, judo and jui juitsu.

From a practical point of view either judo or jui juitsu would be the best as I'm not sure how Iwill go from the kyokushin hard hitting style to the aikedo approach. It also seems aikedo takes a very long time to become practical and as I said I still want my main focus to be Kyokushin. Anyway I'll have to try both the judo and jui juitsu dojos but I am leaning towards judo atm any thoughts would be appretiated.
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JCavin
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 88
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas
Styles: Kenpo

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What style of ju-jitsu is it?

I'll just go ahead and put my vote in for Judo. Lots of good experience with Judo and I think you'll find it is in the same vein as your Kyokushin class. I.e. competitive, realistic self defense, and intense training.

Also, the range will be very familiar to you. It would be a great fit, imo.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15773
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inmo, I believe that just about every form of the martial arts would greatly benefit from learning and incorporating grappling into their core art. Kyokushin is no difference; it would greatly benefit from learning and incorporating grappling...quite solid!!


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Jay
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 1190


PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would recommend Judo to anyone but im biased. I have actually done some of all three but I prefer judo, maybe because I did it longer. Any throw on hard floor is going to be effective.

As with any schools there are good and bad ones so just ask if you could try them out. Its good that you are working on your weaknesses.
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luca61
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 04 Jun 2011
Posts: 16
Location: Santa Monica. California
Styles: Seido

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to check but if I'm not wrong I remember one Oyama's book having locks and chokes, I believe he was influenced by Aikijitsu. For simple self defense I will go with judo, IMO osoto gari is one of the best throw for self defense. BJJ is a wonderful grappling art, but sometimes it get a little too complex for pure self defense.
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tallgeese
KF VIP

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6862
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing with Judo vs. BJJ for this sort of thing, is that your complimenting one stand up art with another. Granted, the focus is different, grappling vs. striking, but they are both working in essentially the same pool. You already have toys to play in that pool.

If you move to BJJ, a very ground specific art, you'll open your options further than you would otherwise. Granted, judo does have some ground work; however, you'll find that it does not have the specialization once down that BJJ does.

There is some complexity to BJJ; however, any new skill seems complex at the outset. What you'll find is that a bulk of the art, the core, is not so much that way. It's about position, and t hat's what you'll use in real conflict more than anything else. The ability to gain, and hold, position is key in real work conflict. This work is not the complex stuff you'll see in highlights video but it is the meat and potatoes of the art.

Either will serve you well. Just giving you another angle to think about the problem from.
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2628
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would recommend Judo (heck, there is already a branch of Kyokushin that combines the two) because of its ability to teach you about grips (both on clothing and the body), body movement, takedown defense and throws. Just make sure that the dojo also trains newaza (groundwork) on a regular basis because otherwise you're only getting half the art.

What tallgeese says about complimenting a standing art with a standing art is half-correct (and I mean no offense, tallgeese), and I personally believe that the groundwork taught in Judo (and I will admit that a great many Judo dojo do not teach enough groundwork, unfortunately) is plenty for self defense--it is simple and effective, particularly if you have an instructor who doesn't mind teaching the techniques that have been removed from Judo competition that are still effective (neck cranking techniques and leg locks, primarily). That said, there is some pretty cool stuff the BJJ world has come up with that you would be missing out on, and you would certainly become a better groundwork technician in BJJ, but I feel that most BJJ schools are the opposite of many Judo schools--too much groundwork and not enough standing grappling and throws/sweeps.
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Shorin-Ryu | 2010-Present: Nidan | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
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guitarguy
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 46

Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys I was leaning towards judo but now i think it's locked in I'll be starting after this term (atm we are going through final exams etc so best wait). I think the concept of complementing a standing based art with another works well and in my kyokushin class we already to some grappleing and breaking out of holds etc. I wanted a grappling art though to make me feel as comfortable with being grabbed as I am with someone swinging at me.
And the idea of taking something to the ground intentionally seems dangerous to me, yet if the ground doe sget involved judo still offers options. I'm also short and solid so in many ways judo fits my build and is another way to close the gab when being attacked by bigger opponents. I also was watching some judo kata on youtube and it seemed interesting (I'm a kata fanatic) so that in itself adds to the positives.
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Dobbersky
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 1323
Location: Manchester. United Kingdom
Styles: Black Tiger Ashihara Karate Jutsu, Japanese Kickboxing, Cheng Man Ch'ing TaiChi

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

guitarguy wrote:
Thanks guys I was leaning towards judo but now i think it's locked in I'll be starting after this term (atm we are going through final exams etc so best wait). I think the concept of complementing a standing based art with another works well and in my kyokushin class we already to some grappleing and breaking out of holds etc. I wanted a grappling art though to make me feel as comfortable with being grabbed as I am with someone swinging at me.
And the idea of taking something to the ground intentionally seems dangerous to me, yet if the ground does get involved judo still offers options. I'm also short and solid so in many ways judo fits my build and is another way to close the gab when being attacked by bigger opponents. I also was watching some judo kata on youtube and it seemed interesting (I'm a kata fanatic) so that in itself adds to the positives.


Definately take Judo, Oyama Sosai was involved in Judo too. If you take Aikido you will have a similar "Stance" to Ashihara Karate and Enshin Karate.

OSU!!!!
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guitarguy
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 46

Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's interesting actuelly quiet a lot of high ranking people i know who do kyoushin are also involved in judo i think this is testiment to the way they can be combined and compliment each other.
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