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Green Belt
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 361

Styles: Kyokushin, TKD

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wado Heretic wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBTVhbL3jGs

The above is a pretty relevant example of the pulsing of sports karate versus the more set approach of Knockdown karate. The speed was the deciding factor, for which pulsing can help, and the kyokushin fighter did not expect the kick at all. He did not have his chin tucked in, nor did he bring his hands up in any sort of defence; he failed to react at all, and the kick might as well have been a sucker-punch.

We don't do Ushiro mawashi geri that often in class, but that kick and defending against it is something that is a part of Kyokushin (at least at the dojo I train in). The Kyokushin fighter in this case should of at least had his hands up to block the kick...and if he were fast enough (which some practitioners are) he would have moved with the shoulder turn as well.

In addition, what was with the Kyokushin fighter's hands going up and down? All the Shotokan fighter had to do was wait for the Kyokushin fighter's right hand to go up and then execute the kick as his hand was going back down.

I would not have had the speed to defend or evade that kick though...
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Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 387
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was not intended so much as a critique of Kyokushin, as much as a demonstration of how speed can be a deciding factor; also how the "pulsing" which is popular in point kumite can assist with kick-shock to generate speed and power.

That particular fighter made many blunders leading to his one kick loss:

1. Did not threaten his opponent at all with his hands.
2. Tried to slowly close the distance, and did not control it at all with any offence.
3. Did not have the chin tucked in.

However; his opponent made similar mistakes. The Shotokan exponent also demonstrated no range control, and had a posture poor for taking a real blow. The kick was brilliantly timed, but saved him from his own inadequacies.

Hopefully this better explains the point of the video; to demonstrate how pulsing can be effective as a tool in full contact. It was not so much about the styles, as to illustrate the major difference in fighting posture between point and knockdown kumite.
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Age-Uke
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 11 Feb 2019
Posts: 18

Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the debate sizzles out to "who's has the better prowess"

I always look at MMA as the gold standard. The thing to remember is that both arts have been tested at the highest levels in MMA.

Granted there was some supplemental training going on, but...

GSP trained I believe he still does) in Kyokushin.

Lyoto Machida trains Shotokan and won the light heavyweight championship and contended the middleweight belt. His brother (using Shotokan) has also done really well.

Karate as a whole has proved itself.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14370
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, imho, it's the individual that versus an individual, and not the style. The style is the vehicle in which the individual arrives in; how the individual drives said vehicle is based on that individual, and not the style.



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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27735
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
You know, imho, it's the individual that versus an individual, and not the style. The style is the vehicle in which the individual arrives in; how the individual drives said vehicle is based on that individual, and not the style.


That is very well put, Bob.
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