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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14515
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titanium wrote:
In the UK you have to be so careful with self defense.
Sometimes, the attacker end up suiting the defender for injury and wins.

Truly messed up system over here at present.

That's here in the USA, too. Burglar falls through the skyline window while trying to break into your house...hurts themselves...goes to jail...sues you...then wins. Good Grief, Charlie Brown!!



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Titanium
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 08 Aug 2015
Posts: 259
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Styles: Wado-Kai & Shotokan

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Titanium wrote:
In the UK you have to be so careful with self defense.
Sometimes, the attacker end up suiting the defender for injury and wins.

Truly messed up system over here at present.

That's here in the USA, too. Burglar falls through the skyline window while trying to break into your house...hurts themselves...goes to jail...sues you...then wins. Good Grief, Charlie Brown!!



I know, wheres self defense anymore.
I think politicians and courts see us, martial artists, as violent people looking for fights - we train because we want to protect ourselves and learn the art.

My question is this, "Will they ever understand?"
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14515
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titanium wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Titanium wrote:
In the UK you have to be so careful with self defense.
Sometimes, the attacker end up suiting the defender for injury and wins.

Truly messed up system over here at present.

That's here in the USA, too. Burglar falls through the skyline window while trying to break into your house...hurts themselves...goes to jail...sues you...then wins. Good Grief, Charlie Brown!!



I know, wheres self defense anymore.
I think politicians and courts see us, martial artists, as violent people looking for fights - we train because we want to protect ourselves and learn the art.

My question is this, "Will they ever understand?"

To the bold type above...

That, my friend, is the Million Dollar Question!! Wish I had the answer because I could use a Million Dollar about...right...NOW!!



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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1737

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably not ever. Ever tried to explain or discuss martial arts with someone who is not interested? Or with someone who insists that popular depictions and misconceptions are accurate no matter how little sense these make?
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14515
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
Probably not ever. Ever tried to explain or discuss martial arts with someone who is not interested? Or with someone who insists that popular depictions and misconceptions are accurate no matter how little sense these make?

These are those who are the true masters of the perceived notions about what the MA is/for!!



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Titanium
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 08 Aug 2015
Posts: 259
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Styles: Wado-Kai & Shotokan

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Titanium wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Titanium wrote:
In the UK you have to be so careful with self defense.
Sometimes, the attacker end up suiting the defender for injury and wins.

Truly messed up system over here at present.

That's here in the USA, too. Burglar falls through the skyline window while trying to break into your house...hurts themselves...goes to jail...sues you...then wins. Good Grief, Charlie Brown!!



I know, wheres self defense anymore.
I think politicians and courts see us, martial artists, as violent people looking for fights - we train because we want to protect ourselves and learn the art.

My question is this, "Will they ever understand?"

To the bold type above...

That, my friend, is the Million Dollar Question!! Wish I had the answer because I could use a Million Dollar about...right...NOW!!



I wish I could understand too. I hate this picture that people paint of martial artists.
I know that the vast majority of practitioners wouldn't hurt a fly, like me; however we possess the skills if we ever need to. This should not be hard to understand.
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IcemanSK
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 1084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Styles: Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To add to what Tallgeese said of the idea of reasonable force is the question of "what is reasonable?" Many of us have seen (or even trained) the "Master Ken-like" ideas (although his is comedic) of severe responses to an attack (groin stomps, throat rips, & the like). Certainly such a big over reaction would beg the question, "where did he learn THAT response?" So yes, I can see a time when rank, or time spent training might come up. But at the end of the day, "reasonable force" is still the question asked. Might an opposing lawyer bring it up to make you seem as if you over-stepped, or were a tough guy looking for an excuse to use your training? Sure. That's what lawyers do. So consider that BEFORE you restomp the groin.
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1737

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In general people, even many martial artists, have difficulty distinguishing between fighting and defending oneself. There is a big difference verses these two concepts and knowing it can spare much aggravation and trouble.

The aim of fighting is to win or beat the other person.
The aim of defense is to get away with the least harm as possible as quickly as possible. Hit and run before the other person recovers. Any lawyer or witness will be hard pressed to claim that someone breaking and fleeing form an altercation is the aggressor.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2394


PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intent of both attacker and defender is at question not the belt. Misuse of martial art skills will get you in trouble. Using martial art skills to defuse a dangerous situation is the correct manner or mind set to employ. Over reacting to confrontations will get a person in trouble because now the defender has become the attacker. If your intent is not to hurt another person and simultaneously not to be hurt either this is the stance to have. Otherwise you might not have a leg to stand on.
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1737

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A self defense situation becomes a fight when the defender does not escape despite having the opportunity to do so and continues to strike the attacker. To have a solid claim of self defense, it must be clear that the defender did everything reasonably possible to avoid the attack and only hurt the attacker in the process of escaping.
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