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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16424
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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 Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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People quit the MA because they've their reasons, and it's really none of our business. People don't ask for us to approve their reason(s), they do ask that we respect their decision.
Sure, as an owner/operator/CI I could tweak here and tweak there on the curriculum, and I could do this and do that in hopes to increase retention, however, we need to separate ourselves from wondering why students come and go.
No matter whom the CI is, students are first customers, and customers choose their comings and goings and not the CI or the Governing Body or anyone else. This is what customers do, no matter how solid one's curriculum and the like are.
Can't take it personal, it's business. Think about it briefly but dwelling on it serves no sound purpose to worry on the reason(s) students quit. Why?? The students that did not quit deserve a CI that's focused, and not scatterbrained over something that can't be controlled whatsoever.
I can't stop the students from quitting, nor more than I can stop the wind from blowing. I can ask why the wind blows, but all I can do is ask; I can't stop Mother Nature. I can't stop students from quitting. After asking, it's time to teach those that are there to learn.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Zaine
Black Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2277
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:02 am Post subject: |
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To echo Bob here, there's only so much we can do. There is a difference between quitting because you've lost interest and quitting because the curriculum just didn't work for you. Both are valid reason. The fact of the matter is that we just cannot do anything about the first reason. MA just isn't for everyone and that's okay. We don't live in an era where knowing how to fight is necessary. However, we can change our curriculums as needed. Sometimes, the problem is with the order we teach things, or that we teach certain things, or how we teach them. We could teach the most interesting thing in the world, but if we don't teach it in a way that is engaging, or our teaching style is abrasive, then we're not going to get far. On the other hand, we could be the best teacher in the world. It still won't stop students from leaving. That just happens. All we can do is focus on the things that we can control, and allow the rest to take its course.
_________________
Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.
https://www.instagram.com/nordic_karate/ |
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Himokiri Karate
Member of the Month
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 408
Styles: Boxing, Korean Karate
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
People quit the MA because they've their reasons, and it's really none of our business. People don't ask for us to approve their reason(s), they do ask that we respect their decision.
Sure, as an owner/operator/CI I could tweak here and tweak there on the curriculum, and I could do this and do that in hopes to increase retention, however, we need to separate ourselves from wondering why students come and go.
No matter whom the CI is, students are first customers, and customers choose their comings and goings and not the CI or the Governing Body or anyone else. This is what customers do, no matter how solid one's curriculum and the like are.
Can't take it personal, it's business. Think about it briefly but dwelling on it serves no sound purpose to worry on the reason(s) students quit. Why?? The students that did not quit deserve a CI that's focused, and not scatterbrained over something that can't be controlled whatsoever.
I can't stop the students from quitting, nor more than I can stop the wind from blowing. I can ask why the wind blows, but all I can do is ask; I can't stop Mother Nature. I can't stop students from quitting. After asking, it's time to teach those that are there to learn.
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I really like the bold part. I have a fear that a student leaving is because I did not offer them the right type of training needed to deal with the dangers of life. As a student, I left a Kung Fu Sifu because the teaching he was offering was not good. He himself was a great martial arts fighter and fought in the MMA but he could never raise proper students.
The moment I tried Korean Karate it was not love at first sight because it was beyond brutal. But with time, I fell in love with it because of the result that bestowed on me. From combat styles, I have trained in boxing and sambo, but Korean karate was so difficult that I had to wear a jacket after practice even during warm season because my body was cold.
To this day, I get nervous waiting outside of the dojo/dojang and yet, there is no place on earth that I would rather be than to be at Korean Karate. I just want to make sure my future students feel that about me
| Zaine wrote: |
| To echo Bob here, there's only so much we can do. There is a difference between quitting because you've lost interest and quitting because the curriculum just didn't work for you. Both are valid reason. The fact of the matter is that we just cannot do anything about the first reason. MA just isn't for everyone and that's okay. We don't live in an era where knowing how to fight is necessary. However, we can change our curriculums as needed. Sometimes, the problem is with the order we teach things, or that we teach certain things, or how we teach them. We could teach the most interesting thing in the world, but if we don't teach it in a way that is engaging, or our teaching style is abrasive, then we're not going to get far. On the other hand, we could be the best teacher in the world. It still won't stop students from leaving. That just happens. All we can do is focus on the things that we can control, and allow the rest to take its course. |
If you live in America, then I can agree with you on the bold part. But where I am from, it is horrible and very dangerous. I pretty much live in a forgotten English Colony and the people are completely different than Americans. Sure Americans can be rowdy and little bit loud and rude but they have a good moral compass. My country breeds dangerous sociopaths who are never taught to have plans, goals or dreams in life. My buddy T went to visit relative in San Diego and when he came back, he was saying that he was to go back and live in the U.S once again.
Anyways not to get off topic but I agree with you at the end of the day. Students should have fun but also to know how to defend themselves. My fear is that a karate student might run in to a thuggish MMA/Kickboxer who wants to give a traditional martial artist a hard time. This used to happen a lot in my town in 2000s, not sure if its like that but I want my guys to know that they can handle themselves off and on the mat.
_________________
It begins with the knowledge that the severity of a strikes impact is amplified by a smaller surface area. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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Himokiri Karate
Member of the Month
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 408
Styles: Boxing, Korean Karate
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| It used to be difficult to me to lose students. I've had several students that were quite talented walk away from it. I don't let it bother me anymore. I can't make someone love it as much as I do. |
I guess this is my problem. When I love something with a raging passion, I just assume everyone is the same. Like martial arts for me is as important as air and water. Not having it is something I experienced and it was an extremely horrible life filled with sadness and barely getting out of bed.
So even when training becomes unbearable at times, I am still grateful for it knowing that the alternative feels like a fate worse than death. Also fighting aside, just the stretching, the culture of karate in specific helps to a small extent become a better individual. The bowing, talking about different techniques and learning the social and business aspect can be very rewarding and this goes beyond punches and kicks.
I like a world that revolves around martial arts.
_________________
It begins with the knowledge that the severity of a strikes impact is amplified by a smaller surface area. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:07 am Post subject: |
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Many of us here do. I can see exactly where you are coming from. I was young once, too, and I was where you are now. As your career and experience grow, so you will, and especially how you approach these things emotionally.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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Zaine
Black Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2277
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| Himokiri Karate wrote: |
If you live in America, then I can agree with you on the bold part. But where I am from, it is horrible and very dangerous. I pretty much live in a forgotten English Colony and the people are completely different than Americans. Sure Americans can be rowdy and little bit loud and rude but they have a good moral compass. My country breeds dangerous sociopaths who are never taught to have plans, goals or dreams in life. My buddy T went to visit relative in San Diego and when he came back, he was saying that he was to go back and live in the U.S once again.
Anyways not to get off topic but I agree with you at the end of the day. Students should have fun but also to know how to defend themselves. My fear is that a karate student might run in to a thuggish MMA/Kickboxer who wants to give a traditional martial artist a hard time. This used to happen a lot in my town in 2000s, not sure if its like that but I want my guys to know that they can handle themselves off and on the mat. |
Where is it that you live? If you don't mind me asking.
_________________
Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.
https://www.instagram.com/nordic_karate/ |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16424
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps student misunderstandings and/or misconceptions as far as the MA concerned is one reason that a student quits. In that, the student has a mistaken belief, a wrong idea concerning the MA. Then there's when the student receives erroneous interpretations concerning the MA. Either reason can darken the students desire to continue in the MA. Trust is everything, from both the student and the CI; perception is reality to that person, and once violated, that ship has already sailed away.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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gspell68
White Belt
Joined: 02 Jan 2022
Posts: 11
Styles: Shotokan (JKA), Seibukan.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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My biggest obstacle has been relocating.
I started out in Shotokan and did that for five years.
Moved to Colorado Springs.
The only traditional karate around was Seibukan.
I wasn’t thrilled about it originally, but I did that until the Army made me move again.
Everywhere the Army moved me over the next 20 years seemed to land me in a karate desert, to include my last duty station where I retired.
There’s a few MMA and McDojo places around, but no plain ol’ simple traditional white gi wearing karate schools. |
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Himokiri Karate
Member of the Month
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 408
Styles: Boxing, Korean Karate
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Many of us here do. I can see exactly where you are coming from. I was young once, too, and I was where you are now. As your career and experience grow, so you will, and especially how you approach these things emotionally. |
This makes sense. Perhaps its because in the world of teaching I am still new and the novelty has yet worn off. Of course my sensei is younger than me but he has seen people lose interest and leave time and time again. So I may be the exception and not the rule. This is not meant to be a braggart but if I project my own enthusiasm on to others, it will lead to disappointment I suppose.
That being said, even with all that aside, it is still a rewarding path.
| Zaine wrote: |
| Himokiri Karate wrote: |
If you live in America, then I can agree with you on the bold part. But where I am from, it is horrible and very dangerous. I pretty much live in a forgotten English Colony and the people are completely different than Americans. Sure Americans can be rowdy and little bit loud and rude but they have a good moral compass. My country breeds dangerous sociopaths who are never taught to have plans, goals or dreams in life. My buddy T went to visit relative in San Diego and when he came back, he was saying that he was to go back and live in the U.S once again.
Anyways not to get off topic but I agree with you at the end of the day. Students should have fun but also to know how to defend themselves. My fear is that a karate student might run in to a thuggish MMA/Kickboxer who wants to give a traditional martial artist a hard time. This used to happen a lot in my town in 2000s, not sure if its like that but I want my guys to know that they can handle themselves off and on the mat. |
Where is it that you live? If you don't mind me asking. |
I live in Canada but it keeps getting worse and worse. The entire city is becoming more and more expensive and this was like this before Covid. Soon, the whole town will turn in to East Hastings. Its a place filled with anger and resentment as well as sorrows. Van city has been voted the most unaffordable city in the entire North America. More so than L.A and New York. Yet it provides no opportunities to truly grow in life and stiff legal punishment for getting someone's gender pronounces wrong.
_________________
It begins with the knowledge that the severity of a strikes impact is amplified by a smaller surface area. |
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on the post.
