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LionsDen
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 06 May 2022
Posts: 177


PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

because the majority of karate students are children, who eventually get older and find new interests.

Very few kids join a karate school because they have some deep yearning to do karate, most join because their parents want to bleed some of their energy off before bed time, and tbh in my opinion kinda want someone else to raise them, so all the talk about confidence, discipline, respect, etc. that so many karate schools talk about in person and in their promotional materials is very appealing to parents.

also how do you define 'quitting karate' is a transition to kickboxing like what many karateka do quitting karate?
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15921
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsDen wrote:
because the majority of karate students are children, who eventually get older and find new interests.

Very few kids join a karate school because they have some deep yearning to do karate, most join because their parents want to bleed some of their energy off before bed time, and tbh in my opinion kinda want someone else to raise them, so all the talk about confidence, discipline, respect, etc. that so many karate schools talk about in person and in their promotional materials is very appealing to parents.

also how do you define 'quitting karate' is a transition to kickboxing like what many karateka do quitting karate?

Welcome to KF, LionsDen; glad that you're here!!



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LionsDen
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 06 May 2022
Posts: 177


PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
LionsDen wrote:
because the majority of karate students are children, who eventually get older and find new interests.

Very few kids join a karate school because they have some deep yearning to do karate, most join because their parents want to bleed some of their energy off before bed time, and tbh in my opinion kinda want someone else to raise them, so all the talk about confidence, discipline, respect, etc. that so many karate schools talk about in person and in their promotional materials is very appealing to parents.

also how do you define 'quitting karate' is a transition to kickboxing like what many karateka do quitting karate?

Welcome to KF, LionsDen; glad that you're here!!



Thanks, hopefully the pace of discussion will pick up now
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15921
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most, if not every business, worries to some degree the flow of customers across the board. There are many tables of concern to track, and that's a normal concern of any business.

This day last year, we had X customers...This day last month, we had X customers...This day last quarter, we had X customers. These concerns, while important with the P&L and other tracking tools, shouldn't drive said CI/Owner/Operator to many sleepless nights.

Right from the very moments the dojo doors opened, the CI/Owner/Operator needs to surrender to one undeniable fact of business...Customers come and go, no matter what.

The faster that one can recognize that fact, the sooner the CI/Owner/Operator can do what they're supposed to do when one is running a MA school...and that one thing is...TEACH!!

The floor is for teaching, the office is for fine-tuning the business. If done right, the two departments take care of each other. If done incorrect, one department suffers while the other department wanders around lost...trying to find the escape door.

Students want to quit?? Then by all means, quit; the sooner the better. I'm not saying that the CI/Owner/Operator need not fix that which is broken because what is broken better be fixed one way or another, What I am saying is, don't lose sleep over it...TEACH!! When in whatever department the CI/Owner/Operator IS, then wear THAT HAT, not at the same time.

Business adage...There's time for things to be done, but not all of the time; everything has its time, and every time has its place!! No matter what, one can only be at one place at one time putting out just ONE FIRE AT A TIME!!




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Tyler
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 16 Mar 2022
Posts: 53
Location: Narita,Japan
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Kobudo

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could never Imagine quitting Karate as it is excellent excercize not to mention learn to control your breathing. You can always train solo and just do Kata but once you have put so many years into anything..........You should still practice or its meaningless to have ever begun. I also do Kobudo which is fascinating and will help you when you are older carrying a cane etc.
Rotflmao
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DarthPenguin
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 03 Dec 2021
Posts: 315
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Most, if not every business, worries to some degree the flow of customers across the board. There are many tables of concern to track, and that's a normal concern of any business.

This day last year, we had X customers...This day last month, we had X customers...This day last quarter, we had X customers. These concerns, while important with the P&L and other tracking tools, shouldn't drive said CI/Owner/Operator to many sleepless nights.

Right from the very moments the dojo doors opened, the CI/Owner/Operator needs to surrender to one undeniable fact of business...Customers come and go, no matter what.

The faster that one can recognize that fact, the sooner the CI/Owner/Operator can do what they're supposed to do when one is running a MA school...and that one thing is...TEACH!!

The floor is for teaching, the office is for fine-tuning the business. If done right, the two departments take care of each other. If done incorrect, one department suffers while the other department wanders around lost...trying to find the escape door.

Students want to quit?? Then by all means, quit; the sooner the better. I'm not saying that the CI/Owner/Operator need not fix that which is broken because what is broken better be fixed one way or another, What I am saying is, don't lose sleep over it...TEACH!! When in whatever department the CI/Owner/Operator IS, then wear THAT HAT, not at the same time.

Business adage...There's time for things to be done, but not all of the time; everything has its time, and every time has its place!! No matter what, one can only be at one place at one time putting out just ONE FIRE AT A TIME!!





Viewing it through a business lens the CI has to decide on their business model and what do they want to achieve and what is in their power to control.

eg retention, do they want to retain a large student base due to a reputation for excellent training and exacting standards or do they want to retain one due to a reputation for fast progression and a feel good factor? Personally i think the former is more sustainable as if you can get a solid base of long term dedicated students then you keep a solid income stream

Some people though find a high turnover of 'transitory' students works for them. They rely on being able to get new faces through the door and seek to maximise the profit available from it.

There does seem to be a different perspective on the martials arts as a business idea in the UK though. Discounting boxing gyms, there has never been a massive focus on martial arts teaching being used as a 'job'. People taught from a love of the art and generally sought to recoup their costs for teaching, with a small amount extra. Now we are beginning to see more full time martial arts coaches. Where i live it is mainly a few full time bjj academies, some mma schools, and one taekwondo academy near me, where the instructor has made it their livelihood.

I'll be interested to see how things develop over here as things change.
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aurik
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 315
Location: Denver, CO
Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At my shodan test yesterday, we had an interesting discussion -- in Japanese "shodan" means either "beginner degree" or "little degree". In other words, at shodan you have mastered the basics, but you still have a LOT to learn. The other thing they mentioned was that MANY students see "black belt" as the goal, and not a milestone along the way. For every nidan out there, there are many many more shodans.

I guess one of the reason that people quit was that they see it as "I got my black belt, cool, I'm done!". I actually worked with a guy who said that very same thing about his son -- "He did TKD and got his black belt". All past tense. My CI's opinion is that once you earn your first degree, you go back and re-learn everything and apply what you've learned to it and start doing your kata, bunkai, and yakusoku kumite with a black belt level of understanding.
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Tyler
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 16 Mar 2022
Posts: 53
Location: Narita,Japan
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Kobudo

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Most children begin because of their parents. And will give up soon unless their parents pressure them or they make friendships within the classes or hopefully like to be tested and can realize how it will all help you out later in life not only mentally, physically but will also help you to be an all around more confident person. Like they say The brain and the body go hand in hand.

In my case...........After I got Shodan I realized......its all about making every move, rotation, kata etc. better and then even Ni-dan or San Dan you realize how good you thought you became but it's a never ending process to really excel at it! As they say..........in life you will never stop learning and perfecting your skills. To me that is the challenge to focus on foot and punch placement, hip rotation and generating power. i love doing the Kata and video taping it once every 4 months to review the growth.
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JazzKicker
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 07 Aug 2017
Posts: 164
Location: NJ
Styles: JKD, TSD, MMA

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tyler wrote:
I could never Imagine quitting Karate as it is excellent excercize not to mention learn to control your breathing. You can always train solo and just do Kata but once you have put so many years into anything..........You should still practice or its meaningless to have ever begun. I also do Kobudo which is fascinating and will help you when you are older carrying a cane etc.
Rotflmao


Imagine you're walking down a path, and every few steps, you find a lovely pile of pebbles. You pick them up and carry them with you. After a few stops, eventually your hands are full, your arms are getting tired. You love all these pebbles, but you have to put some down. If you want any new ones, you have to put down even more. You put down the ones you don't like so much anymore, the ones that are too heavy or too sharp.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't have picked them up to begin with, it just means you're done with them.
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LionsDen
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Joined: 06 May 2022
Posts: 177


PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Id also say that a lot of people do join to learn to fight, and at some point get disillusioned with karate based off of their experience at the dojo they train at.
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