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Gazhudson18
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 02 Dec 2015
Posts: 10
Location: England
Styles: okinawan goju ryu

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject: Makiwara training Reply with quote

Hi everybody. I have just made a makiwara and was just wondering if anybody has any idea how long and how many sessions I should be doing as a complete beginner to the makiwara
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14183
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a beginner, imho, one should NOT train the makiwara without the direct supervision of ones instructor. As a matter of fact, a beginner should concentrate far much more on anything else besides the makiwara; that's for a time much later.

There are far much better tools to strike than a makiwara for beginners; perhaps a hanging bag or BOB.

Makiwara requires a undeniable understanding about posture, balance, and proper execution of said technique, just for starting; otherwise, a many things will suffer beside your wreck body, hands particularly.

The makiwara needs to be approached with total respect, first and foremost!!



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Gazhudson18
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 02 Dec 2015
Posts: 10
Location: England
Styles: okinawan goju ryu

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much for your reply. I am currently a black belt and have been training for nearly 8 years. I have never used the makiwara for the reasons you stated (I feel like Iíve only just grasped the basics!) could you please tell me the benefits of makiwara training from your personal experience.
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Bulltahr
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 572
Location: NEW ZEALAND
Styles: Shotokan, Seido Juku

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry I can't find it right now, but there is a thread around here somewhere with a pic of some guy's knuckle where he damaged it on the makiwara and then posted asking how to use it basically.
Sensei8 is 110% correct in his advise!
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14183
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gazhudson18 wrote:
Thank you very much for your reply. I am currently a black belt and have been training for nearly 8 years. I have never used the makiwara for the reasons you stated (I feel like Iíve only just grasped the basics!) could you please tell me the benefits of makiwara training from your personal experience.

As in any answer stemming from the MA, they're varied from practitioner to practitioner, and so forth and so on.

Here's my personal experience with Makiwara training over my many decades of doing so. You being a Yudansha already, your Kihon should already be way more than just a passing notion, but of a serious understanding of your three K's...Kihon, Kata, and Kumite.

However, the makiwara will be that silent judge from your very first, and on going, waza, each and every time. The makiwara will test you across the board, and in an honest as well as unforgivable manner.

A) Above all, the purpose of makiwara training is to develop Kime (focus).This requires coordination of mind, body and breathing techniques, and this is achieved by correct repetitive practice, but as I first mentioned to you once already, but under the watchful eye of your Sensei, through serious dedication.

B) The makiwara will provide feedback in your waza's immediately, in short, you'll feel if your waza is correct and solid or not. That's why proper posture and balance must be an ever constant. YOU'LL FEEL BOTH THE GOOD AS WELL AS THE BAD FEEDBACK; pain is a useful tool.

C) Empty your mind of any preconceived notions about makiwara training, if not, you'll be afraid of the training, and training isn't something that should be feared, but energetically welcomed. Is training in the makiwara going to hurt? Maybe, that might depend on your personal as well as your MA maturity, and in conjunction with your pain threshold. DON'T EVER OVER TRAIN with the makiwara; to do so, some serious injuries and/or diseases may concur...LISTEN TO YOUR BODY!!

D) Strengthens your wrists and joints; improper alignments won't be tolerated, but what a vital tool to alert one's body that that waza wasn't executed whatsoever. I addition, body mechanics as well as muscles, ligaments, as well as ones mind are too strengthened through makiwara training.

E) Builds powerful techniques, power and speed. Repetitive contact to the makiwara has its own rewards. In time, the urgencies of your waza's will be honed, as will its potentiality across the board through effective training.

F) Proper distancing and hip position to maximize power and force is also taught through makiwara training. Stand to close to the makiwara pad, you'll feel the uncomfortable and immediate feedback, but your opponents supposed to be the one that feels uncomfortable. Stand to far away from the makiwara pad, you'll feel that too, but your target won't feel anything to be alarmed much about.

G) Develops ones Karate spirit. There's no middle ground; either one has it or one doesn't. Makiwara training will challenge ones spirit in ways that not many other methods can achieve decidedly so. Makiwara training will task you in ways that you can only imagine, but the actuality of its training comes alive and in a realization that's undeniable; a truth that builds ones Karate spirit. Having no Karate spirit is akin to not being alive; dead from ones ears down.

H) Ikken Hissattsu (To kill with one blow). Aside from definition, its core is what every MAist strives for in their waza's without any ambiguity whatsoever. To have ones attacker stopped dead in their tracks with one blow...no 2 or 3 or 253 later, but with that one focused attack. If a MAist is of the mindset that this old maxim has no relevancy today, then I propose that that MAist is of no relevancy in their spirit nor in their waza's.

In closing, there are many MAists that will say that makiwara training is bad; increasing the chance of arthritis in the hands to crippling them all together. And while that possibiliy does exist, I ask this...Just who's journey is this!?!

Train hard and train well!!



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Fat Cobra
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 14 Jul 2018
Posts: 113
Location: Fort Drum, NY
Styles: Ryukyu Kempo

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sensei8 hit the nail on the head (which, by the way is another great way to develop power and strength--with the bare hands)!
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2387
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing I will add, here, is that the makiwara IS NOT A CONDITIONING TOOL. I've written articles on the makiwara, a number of times, and I have to point this out each time, because it is a very pervasive myth. Your makiwara is not just a post to beat on until your hands get tougher, it is for developing your structure, and should function like a spring--if it doesn't flex, it won't do the job.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14183
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wastelander wrote:
The only thing I will add, here, is that the makiwara IS NOT A CONDITIONING TOOL. I've written articles on the makiwara, a number of times, and I have to point this out each time, because it is a very pervasive myth. Your makiwara is not just a post to beat on until your hands get tougher, it is for developing your structure, and should function like a spring--if it doesn't flex, it won't do the job.

Solid post!!



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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
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Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wastelander wrote:
The only thing I will add, here, is that the makiwara IS NOT A CONDITIONING TOOL. I've written articles on the makiwara, a number of times, and I have to point this out each time, because it is a very pervasive myth. Your makiwara is not just a post to beat on until your hands get tougher, it is for developing your structure, and should function like a spring--if it doesn't flex, it won't do the job.


True its main purpose is to develop power and teach proper body mechanics, however it can not be denied that the bodies natural weapons do over time become conditioned with it's use.

I understand what you are saying and do agree with you but it does also serve this function albeit not its main function.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14183
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
Wastelander wrote:
The only thing I will add, here, is that the makiwara IS NOT A CONDITIONING TOOL. I've written articles on the makiwara, a number of times, and I have to point this out each time, because it is a very pervasive myth. Your makiwara is not just a post to beat on until your hands get tougher, it is for developing your structure, and should function like a spring--if it doesn't flex, it won't do the job.


True its main purpose is to develop power and teach proper body mechanics, however it can not be denied that the bodies natural weapons do over time become conditioned with it's use.

I understand what you are saying and do agree with you but it does also serve this function albeit not its main function.

It does offer that positive side benefit. Like swimming has the side benefit of not drowning while learning how to swim.



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