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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Females are not all built the same neither are males.

Manly girls and girly men for example.

Jock chicks and Tom boys that like to fight are becoming ever increasingly stronger, tougher and more resilient than ever.

These UFC women are the real deal, they don't have Barbie sparring partners, more realistically they are training with her partner Ken, in the gym bench pressing him.
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mushybees
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Joined: 16 Nov 2014
Posts: 199
Location: UK
Styles: Wado ryu

PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are plenty of relatively strong women in the ufc. No weedy men though. Men who gravitate towards competitive fighting are strong and athletic. They train hard to be the best. This means they want to be as strong and as agile as they can be.

Watching two evenly matched fighters compete is exciting, male or female.
Who wants to watch a woman who strives to be the best matched up with a feeble guy who isn't physically capable of competing with other men? It would be an insult to the female fighter.
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could be too big of a blow for the male ego for a women to beat a man in the Octagon.

Or perhaps some women don't believe it is right for females to hit males, as it seems unethical for them.
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mushybees
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never met a woman who wouldn't love to smack a man about. Might just be me though
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mushybees wrote:
I've never met a woman who wouldn't love to smack a man about. Might just be me though
This might be an insensitive for many females to become UFC fighters if they could fight men in a physical environment, such as the Octagon.
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Lupin1
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Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 1636
Location: Texas USA
Styles: Isshinryu

PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Females are not all built the same neither are males.

Manly girls and girly men for example.

Jock chicks and Tom boys that like to fight are becoming ever increasingly stronger, tougher and more resilient than ever.

These UFC women are the real deal, they don't have Barbie sparring partners, more realistically they are training with her partner Ken, in the gym bench pressing him.


I don't think being a Barbie vs a Tomboy is enough to overcome the physical differences between men and women. Women who compete in the Olympics are the real deal. They train just as long and hard and have just as much fighting spirit as their male counterparts. They're not Barbies. Yet they still compete separately because the physical differences between the sexes require it.

Let's look at swimming. The woman's world record of all time for the 400m individual medley is 4:26.36. The slowest male competitor in Rio last year swam it in 4:16.8. So the slowest male beat out the all time world record for women.

Let's look at running. We'll look at the 5000m. The female all time world record is 14:11.15. The slowest male competitor at Rio did it in 13:07.17. Again the slowest male beat out the all time world record for women.

And I didn't go cherry picking these examples, either. I just picked two random events. I'm sure you could look at almost every Olympic event and the vast majority of them will have the slowest man still beating the female world record. Men and women are just built differently. And that's ok.
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468


PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lupin1 wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
Females are not all built the same neither are males.

Manly girls and girly men for example.

Jock chicks and Tom boys that like to fight are becoming ever increasingly stronger, tougher and more resilient than ever.

These UFC women are the real deal, they don't have Barbie sparring partners, more realistically they are training with her partner Ken, in the gym bench pressing him.


I don't think being a Barbie vs a Tomboy is enough to overcome the physical differences between men and women. Women who compete in the Olympics are the real deal. They train just as long and hard and have just as much fighting spirit as their male counterparts. They're not Barbies. Yet they still compete separately because the physical differences between the sexes require it.

Let's look at swimming. The woman's world record of all time for the 400m individual medley is 4:26.36. The slowest male competitor in Rio last year swam it in 4:16.8. So the slowest male beat out the all time world record for women.

Let's look at running. We'll look at the 5000m. The female all time world record is 14:11.15. The slowest male competitor at Rio did it in 13:07.17. Again the slowest male beat out the all time world record for women.

And I didn't go cherry picking these examples, either. I just picked two random events. I'm sure you could look at almost every Olympic event and the vast majority of them will have the slowest man still beating the female world record. Men and women are just built differently. And that's ok.
You are picking out race competitions with running and swimming, UFC isn't based on an A too B the fastest wins.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15712
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not!?!

After all, as MAists, gender shouldn't matter one way or another.

If so, then women the world wide shouldn't learn the MA!! Not if men are much stronger and all, than women...they don't have a snow balls chance in you know where, against men.

I do not, and will not subscribe to the mindset that women don't have a chance against a man, no matter the venue. To do so, automatically makes women inferior to men!!

There's this...

http://www.bleacherreport.com/articles/2072949-dana-white-ronda-rousey-beat-up-two-huge-men-so-bad-they-filed-charges

Yet, to be fair, there's this...

https://www.mmafighting.com/2015/3/6/8158595/ronda-rousey-says-she-wont-fight-a-man-theres-no-setting-in-which-we

Women VS Men: Both as MAist, imho, are equal as equal can be depending on the knowledge and experience basis. Isn't it about time that MAists start to consider, and to give women their due respect, especially as capable and effective MAists.

http://www.lyricsdepot.com/helen-reddy/i-am-woman.html

Those lyrics are the champion banner for women...even MA women!!

Then there's the maxim that says...

Never under estimate your opponent!! This, should be remembered, especially whenever it comes to women



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DWx
KF Sensei
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6443
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
I do not, and will not subscribe to the mindset that women don't have a chance against a man, no matter the venue. To do so, automatically makes women inferior to men!!

That's just the problem. They are inferior when it comes to muscle mass and athletic ability. You can't change biology.

I'm all for championing equal rights and equal opportunities but there is no way an elite female fighter will compete on the same level as an elite man. We can't pretend that MMA is any different from other sports in that experience and tactics count too, they do in every other sport as well. Aside from pure speed or strength contests like weightlifting or running (where women can't compete, as per Lupin1's comment), I still can't think of any contest where women consistently hold their own when going head to head.

It's not the movies where a female MA fighter might call on some mystical higher power to give her strength or outmanoeuvre the jock in some quick thinking.

Like my previous example of Serena Williams. Tennis involves just as much technique, experience and cunning as athletic ability, and yet the Williams sister still couldn't beat the 203 male seed.

And IMHO to tell a female MAist she will have success against men is irresponsible. She might have success against weaker men and might do OK some of the time. But against the vast majority of male attackers, to fight them for a prolonged amount of time drastically increases the female's chance of losing and of getting seriously hurt.

In teaching women MA we are increasing the chance they might survive an encounter, but lets not pretend they will get a KO or submission on the street. The best policy is still for them to cut and run, to do what they have to do to get break, and when they have an opportunity to run like a bat out of hell. An unskilled, athletic guy still has a really good chance of winning in that scenario but at least with some MA training we're giving females a small chance. But in MMA or UFC? You're asking a female to go toe-to-toe for 15 mins+ and now you are no longer just asking her to escape, but to try to KO or submit her opponent. It's not going to happen.
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Lupin1
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Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 1636
Location: Texas USA
Styles: Isshinryu

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll just point out that I think it's funny the two women in this thread are saying "no, women are different from men" while the men are saying women are strong and can compete.

From a woman's perspective-- we'd rather have women compete against women to give the strongest among us a chance to shine rather than have them compete in the same pool as men and have maybe one or two women in the world who could even break into the top 20.

Women ARE different from men and it's more fair to the athletes to have them compete separately. There is a reason ABC just voted unanimously to separate fights into even more weight classes-- because body composition matters.
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