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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468


PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are plenty of male vs female videos on YouTube.
How about looking at a few, that meets your criteria's.

The links I posted here were very random, wasn't sifting through them to find the best of the best.

Would be ironic for many if the best of the best, turned out to be a female.

UFC was based on or started from the idea that a smaller person could beat a larger/stronger person, with a good ground plan; BJJ proved it.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29283
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
UFC was based on or started from the idea that a smaller person could beat a larger/stronger person, with a good ground plan; BJJ proved it.


Yes, it did, at the time. It also kick-started a training revolution, and everyone and every gym that was serious about training for MMA-style competitions started revamping their training programs. Over the course of time, it became much more focused, structured, and professional, and better athletes started showing up with serious focus on training.

Its also important to not forget that the early UFC competitions were a launching pad for the Gracie's to display the skillset of BJJ, which it did marvelously.

Things have changed, training is better, and fighters are better.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
OMG What is this in the Octagon?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S6x1kRnGNU0

A glimpse in to the future!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2gSR0dqZwbo

Girl vs Goliath

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IvSwpsw7d_E

Male vs Female MMA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3KQACh4Yv_k


The kids fight I believe. The other three were less than impressive. Take the MMA fight. The guy had the opportunity to drop the hammer many times but barely hit her in the gut. The sumo guy wasn't giving it much effort in the least.

I would never say that a woman couldn't best a man or that a smaller person couldn't destroy a larger one. Having said that these vids were a very pour example. The kids fight was pretty much spot on. Larger kid gets bested by better technique. That one I'll buy.

I still do not think we will ever see a top ranked female and male fighter in the same weight class going at it. I don't think the crowd would watch a female getting knocked out. The natural tendency of men is to protect not harm women.

I just can't see a sanctioned UFC fight on prime time coverage between a man and a women. And personally I don't think this is a needed spectacle for women to feel equality. They have captured the spot light. I personally think most of the female fights are ten times more exciting than the men's as 90% just go 100% out from the start to the finish making for a more exciting fight.

However if a top ranked woman is willing to step in the ring with a top ranked man and both parties agree to it. More power to them. I just can't see it ever happening.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tempest wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
Yes, but its not UFC, and these aren't UFC-caliber fighters.
Sorry I didn't read the small print.

Just put 1on1 male vs female MMA; it looked good enough 99%


Not really. If you put a purple/brown belt female up against a white belt male about her size, which means he didn't cut and she probably did, in an amateur setting with a school that is all about promoting female martial artists, you get a result like this. It may have even been a demo for the school with a pre-set outcome.

Take the BEST 145lb female in the world right now. Inarguably that is Cyborg right now.

Put her up against ANYONE on the UFC roster with a record at 145, she gets destroyed.
Not beaten. Not "well it was a good fight". DESTROYED. Loses in the first round most likely.

And if it is a ground and pound, the UFC would be out of business within the week from the fan blowback.


Didn't see your post before I posted Tempest. Your pretty much spot on.

I think their would be an out cry the first time a man destroyed a female fighter in the ring and depending on how badly she got hurt it might very well shut down the UFC.

I agree with your assessment.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
There are plenty of male vs female videos on YouTube.
How about looking at a few, that meets your criteria's.

The links I posted here were very random, wasn't sifting through them to find the best of the best.

Would be ironic for many if the best of the best, turned out to be a female.

UFC was based on or started from the idea that a smaller person could beat a larger/stronger person, with a good ground plan; BJJ proved it.


Ok I watch a few. I still say more experienced woman and very inexperienced male. Obviously I did not sit and watch every one but in browsing through and skipping to the final result the men do not appear to be trying and in others they are just majorly out classed by technique.

Technique will overcome brute force unless there is a lucky shot. Having said this all of the fights I watched, the men appear to be novice fighters at best. Again if we are speaking of equality and using these examples as an argument, they do an injustice.

Again I am not saying a top of her game fighter couldn't best a male. But it would be through superior technique.

I personally feel that if trained any one could beat any one if the conditions were right. However one must realize, and I'm sure this is going to come off as sexist but... a male of the same weight class is going to deliver more power in their strikes than a woman in the same weight class especially if they are both highly trained, but even if they are both novices.

It's boils down to body mechanic's and the way we evolved. You might not like this but as a rule of thumb the male was the protector, the hunter and the warrior. This is something that is within the very DNA of the male gender and our bodies are better suited for it. Having said this I am not taking away from the fact that a female can be trained to a very high level or competency and skill and that said female couldn't best male fighters.

I believe this in my heart and soul. The very essence of Karate is the fact that it evolved to give the smaller person a chance against a larger person and this has been proven to work time and time again in real life situations.

However I do believe that putting a top ranked female against a top ranked male would be a calculated error. In this circumstance technique would be equal and it would come down to strength and power. In this case I'm afraid the female looses or as has already been said, gets destroyed.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15712
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then why in the world are we instructors teaching/promoting females in our core styles?? Why?? Because it looks good on paper, in some office, somewhere??

Seems to me that no one is giving any female the respect I feel, and believe, that they wholeheartedly deserve/need.

A female with 10...20...30 years on the floor against a male with similar years on the floor, under YOUR guidance, the female practitioner is effectual across the board as the male practitioner under YOUR guidance, as well.

If we instructors don't give our female students any chance against a male student of equal knowledge and experience, then I feel/believe that we should just close the doors of our MA schools.

Why?

What we're teaching is for BOTH GENDERS!! Not for just one...not for our favorite bet...not for this and that. Our floors are full of both female and male students, and while the ratio might have more male than female students, and they EACH equally deserve our most loyal attention to provide them our best.

We, as MA instructors believe in what we're teaching our Student Body, equally, but whenever push comes to shove, the female student is left without any hope and/or comfort in their learned effectiveness, by their own instructor(s).

Imho!!




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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468


PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Punch like a girl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Qfhs_4z8c
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DWx
KF Sensei
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6443
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:

Danielle, you're a 3rd Dan. In being a 3rd Dan, you've both the knowledge and experience; that must count for something of value. I believe that you've the effectiveness to defend yourself against the person that stands before you. Your instructor believed in you across the board, and that's why he promoted you!!

And now you've subsequently demoted me But anyway..

sensei8 wrote:

No matter my opponent, no matter what they might bring with them, I always do this:

*Study your opponent
*Study yourself
*Make a plan
*Carry the plan out

Of course, this changes and occurs constantly until the very end of the fight. One will win...one will lose! But not until the end arrives! In a matter of seconds, I'll have a solid appreciation of the opponent that stands before me as to his/her knowledge and experience, in which, I"ll then make the necessary adjustments in my approach & the like toward my opponent.

I agree with you on the above approach, should I ever need to defend myself I would do the same. But self defense is about survival, MMA is about winning. Plan or no plan, belief or no belief, an elite female is going to have a rough time trying to submit or KO a male elite fighter. In all honesty they're going to have a rough time surviving the 15 min fight without serious injury.

Now I know it's not the same as MMA, but I have competed and coached on a international level within ITF TKD for the last 10 years. I've seen the cream of the crop and work with them on a weekly basis, both male and female. These athletes are no joke and the majority train hours a day, 7 days a week. A good proportion of them have also medalled at continental and world level. These aren't your average hobby-martial artists. Would I stick any of the females in a competitive setting against a male fighter at the same level? No. They'd have no chance. I'd genuinely be concerned for their safety.

Personally I have a decent enough ranking in female heavyweights internationally and I train on a weekly basis with my male heavyweight counterpart. But I'm under no illusions that should we face off competitively, they better have an ambulance on stand-by because I'd probably be going home in it.
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DWx
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6443
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Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Then why in the world are we instructors teaching/promoting females in our core styles?? Why?? Because it looks good on paper, in some office, somewhere??

Seems to me that no one is giving any female the respect I feel, and believe, that they wholeheartedly deserve/need.

A female with 10...20...30 years on the floor against a male with similar years on the floor, under YOUR guidance, the female practitioner is effectual across the board as the male practitioner under YOUR guidance, as well.

If we instructors don't give our female students any chance against a male student of equal knowledge and experience, then I feel/believe that we should just close the doors of our MA schools.

Why?

What we're teaching is for BOTH GENDERS!! Not for just one...not for our favorite bet...not for this and that. Our floors are full of both female and male students, and while the ratio might have more male than female students, and they EACH equally deserve our most loyal attention to provide them our best.

We, as MA instructors believe in what we're teaching our Student Body, equally, but whenever push comes to shove, the female student is left without any hope and/or comfort in their learned effectiveness, by their own instructor(s).

Imho!!




No one here is saying that.

UFC is for elite fighters. And elite females are always going to struggle against elite males. As they do with every other sporting activity.

Self defense or general fighting is a different thing.
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DWx
KF Sensei
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6443
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Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
OMG What is this in the Octagon?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S6x1kRnGNU0

A glimpse in to the future!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2gSR0dqZwbo

Girl vs Goliath

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IvSwpsw7d_E

Male vs Female MMA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3KQACh4Yv_k


The kids fight I believe. The other three were less than impressive. Take the MMA fight. The guy had the opportunity to drop the hammer many times but barely hit her in the gut. The sumo guy wasn't giving it much effort in the least.

I would never say that a woman couldn't best a man or that a smaller person couldn't destroy a larger one. Having said that these vids were a very pour example. The kids fight was pretty much spot on. Larger kid gets bested by better technique. That one I'll buy.

I still do not think we will ever see a top ranked female and male fighter in the same weight class going at it. I don't think the crowd would watch a female getting knocked out. The natural tendency of men is to protect not harm women.

I just can't see a sanctioned UFC fight on prime time coverage between a man and a women. And personally I don't think this is a needed spectacle for women to feel equality. They have captured the spot light. I personally think most of the female fights are ten times more exciting than the men's as 90% just go 100% out from the start to the finish making for a more exciting fight.

However if a top ranked woman is willing to step in the ring with a top ranked man and both parties agree to it. More power to them. I just can't see it ever happening.

Totally agree with your assessment MatsuShinshii.

For kids you don't really see much difference until they hit puberty and the hormones kick in. And the rest didn't seem like fair match ups, the guy either held back or was a lower skill level.

Here's a video the other way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nldh_QQORE
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