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neoravencroft
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 02 May 2015
Posts: 122
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Styles: Wing Chun, JKD, Uechi-Ryu, Escrima, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject: Martial Arts for a healthcare employee Reply with quote

So I just recently became a healthcare employee for a hospital in my area. I currently take Muay Thai. Because I'll be taking the Hippacratic Oath, I wouldn't be able to use my style of martial arts due to it's striking elements. Seeing as there might be a time where I have to confront an angry patient or an angry relative to the patient, what would be a good martial arts to learn for that kind of situation?
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14329
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any MA style; YOU decide the degree of said force, if any necessary, as well as to the technique, not the style!!



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Tempest
Green Belt
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Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 420
Location: Tulsa, OK
Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Martial Arts for a healthcare employee Reply with quote

neoravencroft wrote:
So I just recently became a healthcare employee for a hospital in my area. I currently take Muay Thai. Because I'll be taking the Hippacratic Oath, I wouldn't be able to use my style of martial arts due to it's striking elements. Seeing as there might be a time where I have to confront an angry patient or an angry relative to the patient, what would be a good martial arts to learn for that kind of situation?


Ok...
So there are a few things to consider here.

1. You may be faced with some difficult choices in the use of force continuum as part of your professional life. That does not mean that you should stop training. It means you will have to be careful about when the use of force is appropriate and when it is not.

2. There is nothing in the Hippocratic oath that forbids striking techniques that would not also preclude most any effective fighting system.

3. That said, pursuant to wanting to do the least harm possible in resolving a possible violent confrontation, in my opinion Judo and BJJ give you the most tools for addressing that particular problem.
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DWx
KF Sensei
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6137
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do they not provide training for difficult or combative patients as part of the job? My sister works in healthcare and they get taught both verbal and physical strategies.

As far as the Hippocratic oath goes, which bit would be cause for concern? As far as I can tell nothing in it would prevent you from striking. I would also consider preventing a patient from further injuring themselves or others as preventing further harm.
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Martial Arts for a healthcare employee Reply with quote

neoravencroft wrote:
So I just recently became a healthcare employee for a hospital in my area. I currently take Muay Thai. Because I'll be taking the Hippacratic Oath, I wouldn't be able to use my style of martial arts due to it's striking elements. Seeing as there might be a time where I have to confront an angry patient or an angry relative to the patient, what would be a good martial arts to learn for that kind of situation?


For the scenario you describe, none.

Do you really have the mindset that you might have to fight a patient?

Perhaps do a security guard course instead, to learn how to use body language and words to diffuse a situation, resorting to non violent restraint techniques as a last resort.

Then keep whatever martial arts styles you enjoy for your private life.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A number of martial arts show ways to restrain someone without injuring them. I'd try to focus on those techniques. The medical professionals I have had contact with (friends, family, etc) all had training provided by their employers.

If you're looking for "an excuse" to study another martial art, I say go for it! Aikido, BJJ and judo come to mind.
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DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6137
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Martial Arts for a healthcare employee Reply with quote

OneKickWonder wrote:

Do you really have the mindset that you might have to fight a patient?

Happens more often than you might think. Mental disability, drink, drugs, or even just being very sick and disorientated can make someone lash out.
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
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Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Martial Arts for a healthcare employee Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
OneKickWonder wrote:

Do you really have the mindset that you might have to fight a patient?

Happens more often than you might think. Mental disability, drink, drugs, or even just being very sick and disorientated can make someone lash out.


I know. But surely the mindset should not be the expectation to fight? The expectation to have to use non violent restraint perhaps. But surely not to fight. That being the case, I can't see that martial arts are the answer.
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2412
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth, Muay Thai has a heavy emphasis on clinchwork that can be employed defensively to control people. Muay Boran, the ancestor art of Muay Thai, also includes a variety of limb control, joint locking, and takedown methods that might be of use. That would keep you from having to look elsewhere--it would just change your focus in training
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neoravencroft
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 02 May 2015
Posts: 122
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Styles: Wing Chun, JKD, Uechi-Ryu, Escrima, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Martial Arts for a healthcare employee Reply with quote

Tempest wrote:
neoravencroft wrote:
So I just recently became a healthcare employee for a hospital in my area. I currently take Muay Thai. Because I'll be taking the Hippacratic Oath, I wouldn't be able to use my style of martial arts due to it's striking elements. Seeing as there might be a time where I have to confront an angry patient or an angry relative to the patient, what would be a good martial arts to learn for that kind of situation?


Ok...
So there are a few things to consider here.

1. You may be faced with some difficult choices in the use of force continuum as part of your professional life. That does not mean that you should stop training. It means you will have to be careful about when the use of force is appropriate and when it is not.

2. There is nothing in the Hippocratic oath that forbids striking techniques that would not also preclude most any effective fighting system.

3. That said, pursuant to wanting to do the least harm possible in resolving a possible violent confrontation, in my opinion Judo and BJJ give you the most tools for addressing that particular problem.


You may be right on number 2. However, on a legal standpoint, there's always a ramification on force unless absolutely necessary. Even still, "no force unless absolutely necessary" is a very subjective term in this day and age. According to a security guard at the site, the only way violence is "justified" is if the assailant is preventing you from escape. Any other time goes under a restricted display of force if that makes sense.
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