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cross
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1904
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I guess at this point, it really isn't much of a concern, because there aren't many other schools around me to choose from.


I think this definetly contributes to the problem. With limited schools to choose from in an area, the instructors dont have to raise their standards to "compete" with other schools that may offer something better.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28089
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cross wrote:
Quote:
I guess at this point, it really isn't much of a concern, because there aren't many other schools around me to choose from.


I think this definetly contributes to the problem. With limited schools to choose from in an area, the instructors dont have to raise their standards to "compete" with other schools that may offer something better.


That is a good point, cross.
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baronbvp
Black Belt
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Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 1151
Location: Berlin, Germany
Styles: Muay Thai, boxing, JKD/MMA, Shorin Ryu, military combat arts, fencing, archery

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great article, Bushido Man. I just now ran across it.

At my old Shorin Ryu dojo, ground fighting wasn't an option. They didn't really want to hear the suggestion, either. Perhaps if they could have found a good instructor they might have been more enthusiastic and receptive.

My opinion on the subject is that "martial arts monogamy," an elegant term you've coined, is a dying or dead concept. Many if not most people are now interested in learning what is most effective. Rigid adherence to a single style is an outdated way of thinking and training. MMA is the anathema of single style. Jeet Kune Do was Lee's attempt to incorporate what works, eliminate what doesn't, and promote the philosophy of each person developing what works best for them. I agree with him.

I think a person's fighting ability has more to do with innate ability, training time, and fitness than with choice of style/art. I believe in learning what works for me, being exposed to different styles, and attending more than one school at a time if I want to. (Which right now, I am.)

I think an instructor who advocates monogamy and would expel you for going to another school to find out more is dealing from a position of insecurity. I believe the most important things for a person's personal growth are in the journey itself: the search, the sampling, the knowledge gained along the way, and the skill, fitness, and peace of spirit that result.

Anyone who really wants to become a well-rounded fighter should train in striking, clinching/trapping, joint manipulation, and ground fighting. That's the reality of the modern era. People just need to accept reality without feeling that their students are being disloyal.
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Martial arts are like kinetic chess. Your move.
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cross
Black Belt
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Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1904
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baronbvp wrote:
Great article, Bushido Man. I just now ran across it.

At my old Shorin Ryu dojo, ground fighting wasn't an option. They didn't really want to hear the suggestion, either. Perhaps if they could have found a good instructor they might have been more enthusiastic and receptive.

My opinion on the subject is that "martial arts monogamy," an elegant term you've coined, is a dying or dead concept. Many if not most people are now interested in learning what is most effective. Rigid adherence to a single style is an outdated way of thinking and training. MMA is the anathema of single style. Jeet Kune Do was Lee's attempt to incorporate what works, eliminate what doesn't, and promote the philosophy of each person developing what works best for them. I agree with him.

I think a person's fighting ability has more to do with innate ability, training time, and fitness than with choice of style/art. I believe in learning what works for me, being exposed to different styles, and attending more than one school at a time if I want to. (Which right now, I am.)

I think an instructor who advocates monogamy and would expel you for going to another school to find out more is dealing from a position of insecurity. I believe the most important things for a person's personal growth are in the journey itself: the search, the sampling, the knowledge gained along the way, and the skill, fitness, and peace of spirit that result.

Anyone who really wants to become a well-rounded fighter should train in striking, clinching/trapping, joint manipulation, and ground fighting. That's the reality of the modern era. People just need to accept reality without feeling that their students are being disloyal.


Well said baronbvp.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28089
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post, Baron. I agree.
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TigerDude
Green Belt
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Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 370

Styles: Goju Ryu

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think loyalty is a two-way street. It is clearly wrong for an instructor to limit a student's learnings. I see the instructor as both a leader of the student and also as the provider of a service (which generally toady people pay for).

My advice to you is that after 13 years, maybe it's time to move on.
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cross
Black Belt
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Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1904
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I see the instructor as both a leader of the student and also as the provider of a service (which generally toady people pay for).


This is an important point TigerDude, and if i can add a couple of thoughts:

The part about martial arts instructors providing you with a service holds fairly true today, even if it was different in the past. The problem i see, particularly with traditional schools, is that even though the instructor is well aware that their main focus is the traditional aspects of the art, they still throw the "self defence" tag on there, or claim to teach "anti-grappling" or "secret groundfighting" found in their arts. They try to make their system fit every situation and be able to cover all bases, even though it most likely wont. Its kindof like a plumber claiming to be able to fix your car or something that has no relation to their job. You can rarely cover everything within one style, or fix everything with one "trade" under your belt, to follow the plumber analogy.

If you step into a traditional school and say you wont to learn how to grapple, its rare to hear the instructor say "i suggest you should go to the bjj school down the street." More often they say "well we teach grappling that is found within the kata of our system".. They forget to mention that this makes up a tiny percentage of overall training. Or if you want to learn self defence and cover all aspects include pre, mid and post fight they rarely tell you to seek out someone who specialising in teaching this kind of thing, instead they try to make their system fit everyone and everything. Not doing so would mean admiting that they dont have all the answers, or that they may have something new to learn... this can be very hard for some people.

So martial arts has a service.... i agree... and remember, you wouldnt call a plumber to fix your car. So use the same logic and common sense when selecting a martial art.
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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28089
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TigerDude wrote:

My advice to you is that after 13 years, maybe it's time to move on.


I would like to, but there aren't many options around here. The options are pretty much train, or don't.
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baronbvp
Black Belt
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Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 1151
Location: Berlin, Germany
Styles: Muay Thai, boxing, JKD/MMA, Shorin Ryu, military combat arts, fencing, archery

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
there aren't many options around here. The options are pretty much train, or don't.

Bushido Man, there is a third option: open your own school. You teach TKD. Hire a BJJ guy to teach you and others grappling. I'll bet if you were the new MMA school in Hays, they will come. Maybe even hire some college wrestlers to work part time or this summer. Once you start, I'll bet you could grow it.

Your own school, brother. Think about it.
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Martial arts are like kinetic chess. Your move.
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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28089
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baronbvp wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
there aren't many options around here. The options are pretty much train, or don't.

Bushido Man, there is a third option: open your own school. You teach TKD. Hire a BJJ guy to teach you and others grappling. I'll bet if you were the new MMA school in Hays, they will come. Maybe even hire some college wrestlers to work part time or this summer. Once you start, I'll bet you could grow it.

Your own school, brother. Think about it.


That is a nice idea, Baron, but I'm not sure how feasible it would be. Startup costs, etc. I have run a school in the past, and I think I could do it. But getting a BJJ guy to come here would be like pulling teeth, I think.
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