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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27757
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NinTai wrote:
Hey Shorin,
Its been awile. I've enjoyed your posts.

Shorin Ryuu wrote:
I think far too many people delude themselves into thinking they have mastered the basics of their style. These people are so eager to branch out and become so well-rounded that they end up being mediocre in many things instead of just one.


Reminds me of the saying:
"Jack of all trades, master of none."


I am not concerned about being "master" of TKD, or of any other system. It is like when everyone says that "black belt is the beginning." You can also say "you never truly master anything." I am not going to argue which is right or not. That is not the point here. What I am arguing is that there may be some aspects of fighting that an instructor has no experience in, and it can be learned elsewhere.

I have been doing TKD for over 13 years now. I think I have the basics down. I don't need to be drilling my punch over and over again. I want to learn how to punch, block/slip a punch, and then apply arm bars, takedowns, or escapes from there.

Likewise, if I get taken down to the ground, I want to be able to get out of that situation. Learning grappling would help out with that.

"Mastering an art" would take years. I am not terribly interested in that. I want to learn to be able do defend myself in a fight. That doesn't take as long as it does to "master" an art. It can be done efficiently. That is my goal.
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http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
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baronbvp
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 1151
Location: Berlin, Germany
Styles: Muay Thai, boxing, JKD/MMA, Shorin Ryu, military combat arts, fencing, archery

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be me.
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Only as good as I make myself be, only as bad as I let myself be.

Martial arts are like kinetic chess. Your move.
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baronbvp
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 1151
Location: Berlin, Germany
Styles: Muay Thai, boxing, JKD/MMA, Shorin Ryu, military combat arts, fencing, archery

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant this would be me:

NinTai wrote:
Reminds me of the saying: "Jack of all trades, master of none."

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Only as good as I make myself be, only as bad as I let myself be.

Martial arts are like kinetic chess. Your move.
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NinTai
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 103

Styles: Shorin-Ryu Shorinkan

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:

I have been doing TKD for over 13 years now. I think I have the basics down. I don't need to be drilling my punch over and over again. I want to learn how to punch, block/slip a punch, and then apply arm bars, takedowns, or escapes from there.

Likewise, if I get taken down to the ground, I want to be able to get out of that situation. Learning grappling would help out with that.

"Mastering an art" would take years. I am not terribly interested in that. I want to learn to be able do defend myself in a fight. That doesn't take as long as it does to "master" an art. It can be done efficiently. That is my goal.


I believe thats where the difference lies.
You have a goal, you know what aspects of the other art you feel you need
to compliment what you are doing.

I think that is different from the person who feels that they should go
and study additional arts because they feel like they have the right to
and if their instructor thinks otherwise then they'll "take their money elsewere".
_________________
Too early in the morning? Get up and train.
Cold and wet outside? Go train.
Tired? Weary of the whole journey and longing just for a moment to stop and rest? Train. ~ Dave Lowry

Why do we fall, sir? So that we may learn how to pick ourselves back up. ~ Alfred Pennyworth
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baronbvp
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 1151
Location: Berlin, Germany
Styles: Muay Thai, boxing, JKD/MMA, Shorin Ryu, military combat arts, fencing, archery

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NinTai wrote:
they should go and study additional arts because they feel like they have the right to and if their instructor thinks otherwise then they'll "take their money elsewere

This is a perfectly valid reason. No one is obligated to train in only one art or at only one school. Like it or not, students are customers of the dojo. If a school doesn't offer the services they want, they will find one that will. It's a simple marketing fact. Whether the loss of those students matters to the dojo owner or sensei is a different story.
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Only as good as I make myself be, only as bad as I let myself be.

Martial arts are like kinetic chess. Your move.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27757
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

baronbvp wrote:
NinTai wrote:
they should go and study additional arts because they feel like they have the right to and if their instructor thinks otherwise then they'll "take their money elsewere

This is a perfectly valid reason. No one is obligated to train in only one art or at only one school. Like it or not, students are customers of the dojo. If a school doesn't offer the services they want, they will find one that will. It's a simple marketing fact. Whether the loss of those students matters to the dojo owner or sensei is a different story.


I agree with the Baron here. I don't feel that, as a student, I am obliged to continue my training with someone if I don't enjoy the training, or think it is beneficial to my training, or otherwise. Likewise, if an instructor doesn't offer something that a student wants to learn, then they should be able to seek it out elsewhere, if he/she can. I think that the hallmark of a good, capable instructor, is the ability and willingness to admit what they can and cannot do for a student, and offer his blessings in seeking help where ever a student can find it.
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NinTai
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 103

Styles: Shorin-Ryu Shorinkan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I guess its just a matter of how you see your training.
I don't see it as a comodity that is bought and sold.

When I found my instructor I decided to train with him beacuse I agreed
with his views and methodology.
I explained to him my goals and then placed my trust in him to train me.
If I decide to attend a seminar from another style I ask him what he thinks
and what I should be looking out for. If he disagrees, thinks it will not
benifit my training or that I am not ready for the subject matter I wont go.
After all why have an instructor if you ignore his guidance.

Quote:
offer his blessings in seeking help where ever a student can find it

Well, if you ask for your instructors blessing and ignore him if he dosen't
give it then why bother asking?

We have been looking at it from the student point of view but what about
the instructor side.
It may sound harsh but my point is if you can't put 100% into your training
beacause of schedule conflicts (with another class), overtraining, injury
then why sould i give you 100% of my attention.

There are sport coaches that dont want their players paticipating in other
sports beacuse of various reasons (injury, overtraining, schedule confilcts)
and if they do their out.

Many times people point to the "old days" when an instructor would send his
student to go train with another instructor for something that he did not know.
The part that is over looked is that it is the instructorthat sent the
student to the other teacher when in training was needed and appropriate.
It was not the student saying "well Mabuni sensei if you wont teach me this
I go and take classes with Chibana sensei".

Cheers
_________________
Too early in the morning? Get up and train.
Cold and wet outside? Go train.
Tired? Weary of the whole journey and longing just for a moment to stop and rest? Train. ~ Dave Lowry

Why do we fall, sir? So that we may learn how to pick ourselves back up. ~ Alfred Pennyworth
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longarm25
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 304
Location: Ohio
Styles: Shorin Ryu, Ryu Kyu Te

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could be that some instructors are insecure and are scared of losing busieness. some time new different styes /instructors ect provide a fres prospective on what you are currently working on
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Phil
Ryu Kyu Christian Karate Federation

"Do not be dependent on others for your improvement. Pay respect to God and Buddha
but do not reley on them." Musashi
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baronbvp
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 1151
Location: Berlin, Germany
Styles: Muay Thai, boxing, JKD/MMA, Shorin Ryu, military combat arts, fencing, archery

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a mentoring side of MA that can be separate from the business. It depends on the relationship established and what both sides understand the be the responsibilities of each. Like any relationship, it can break up if one side perceives they are not getting out of the relationship what they need, or if one side doesn't put their share into it.
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Only as good as I make myself be, only as bad as I let myself be.

Martial arts are like kinetic chess. Your move.
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NinTai
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 103

Styles: Shorin-Ryu Shorinkan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baronbvp wrote:
There is a mentoring side of MA that can be separate from the business. It depends on the relationship established and what both sides understand the be the responsibilities of each. Like any relationship, it can break up if one side perceives they are not getting out of the relationship what they need, or if one side doesn't put their share into it.


Well said.
_________________
Too early in the morning? Get up and train.
Cold and wet outside? Go train.
Tired? Weary of the whole journey and longing just for a moment to stop and rest? Train. ~ Dave Lowry

Why do we fall, sir? So that we may learn how to pick ourselves back up. ~ Alfred Pennyworth
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