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DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6408
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
DWx wrote:
Bit late to the party but on the whole my style is very regulated. I do ITF Taekwon-Do and we are well governed from the International level right down. We have to pay an annual fee to own a plaque which gives us the right to say we are ITF. Then we have to affiliate or be a member of an NGB in my country which also govern our activities. Colour belts are mostly unregulated but blackbelts each have a certificate number which is registered at headquarters and then every course you do, international event you attend etc. gets tied to you.

Though.... there are 3 ITF's now (debate over which is the "real" ITF) and many groups which practice ITF-style which aren't as well governed. There's nothing stopping someone from buying the dobok and using all the logos and badges even though they shouldn't


One thing that I thought the American Taekwondo Association did right, regardless of how other stylists feel about the organization as a whole, is copyright their materials.

I was going to ask how the ATA did everything. Seems like they have good branding and consistency.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28901
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, their forms are copyrighted, as are their one-step materials, weapons forms, all that stuff. That's why people that break away from the ATA either invent new forms, or adopt something that already exists.
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RW
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 407


PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
Yeah, their forms are copyrighted, as are their one-step materials, weapons forms, all that stuff. That's why people that break away from the ATA either invent new forms, or adopt something that already exists.


That sounds like kempo.

So say you break off from the ATA form "Joe's Taekwondo", then you end creating made up forms like "rising demon tiger" and 'combination 42', which you just created. This is pretty much kempo.

Can that stuff really be called taekwondo? What is the value of learning a kata that Joe made up last year (or 10 years ago) because he broke off from ATA?

If Joe gave you a black belt, are you really a TKD black belt?
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28901
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RW wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
Yeah, their forms are copyrighted, as are their one-step materials, weapons forms, all that stuff. That's why people that break away from the ATA either invent new forms, or adopt something that already exists.


That sounds like kempo.

So say you break off from the ATA form "Joe's Taekwondo", then you end creating made up forms like "rising demon tiger" and 'combination 42', which you just created. This is pretty much kempo.

Can that stuff really be called taekwondo? What is the value of learning a kata that Joe made up last year (or 10 years ago) because he broke off from ATA?

If Joe gave you a black belt, are you really a TKD black belt?


It depends on how the forms are designed, why they are designed the way they are, and the like. Although ATA forms don't necessarily have applications or bunkai, they are designed with the rank of the student in mind. Each new form introduces techniques that will be taught at that rank, and they are incorporated into the form in such a way that both sides get trained in the techniques, along with techniques from the previous ranks. They did a very good job of designing forms that drive the skill level of the students up as they go up in rank.

As to your question about break-aways from styles or organizations; only the person breaking away can answer why they made what they made and why you should learn them. As far as if someone is really a black belt or not, I would defer to sensei's quote, "The proof is on the floor."
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MAD Mike
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 10 Aug 2020
Posts: 32
Location: Hidalgo County
Styles: Yondan Concentration, Yuk dan, or Pal dan

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was registered traditionally through law enforcement.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15406
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MAD Mike wrote:
I was registered traditionally through law enforcement.

Welcome to KF, MAD Mike; glad you're here!!

Through law enforcement?? How so and in what way??




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MAD Mike
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 10 Aug 2020
Posts: 32
Location: Hidalgo County
Styles: Yondan Concentration, Yuk dan, or Pal dan

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's difficult to say; my duties required it. I asked for Chinese, and received Godan. As a note, I find this too powerful for service, so depending upon my responsibilities I schedule per my profile accordingly.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15406
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MAD Mike wrote:
It's difficult to say; my duties required it. I asked for Chinese, and received Godan. As a note, I find this too powerful for service, so depending upon my responsibilities I schedule per my profile accordingly.

Is what you're saying for being a LEO, and not pertaining to MA rank/regulations?? Perhaps bushido_man96 and/or tallgeese, who are LEO's, can help me understand better.



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MAD Mike
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 10 Aug 2020
Posts: 32
Location: Hidalgo County
Styles: Yondan Concentration, Yuk dan, or Pal dan

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has to do with health, Sensei observation, and multiple real life scenarios.
I believe it to be considered "Traditional" in Japan.
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wildbourgman
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 172
Location: Louisiana
Styles: Shotokan/Shorin Ryu

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Normally I'm a believer in less bureaucracy but on this subject I can see why this topic could press some hot buttons and make some want regulation.

I'll just throw this out there for consideration. I live in a small rural town and we have one style that has two 10th dan karate instructors. These instructors also have mid to high level dan rankings 6 other marital arts styles and all these rankings came from the same instructor as far as I can tell.

Now in my opinion if your small town has multiple residents with 10th dans in Karate you'd better be living in Naha. Other than that some scrutiny is warranted to say the least.
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