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CrazyAZNRocker
Yellow Belt
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 80
Styles: Punching and Kicking, Elbows and Knees, Clinch and Grapple.
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 Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| elbows_and_knees wrote: |
| CrazyAZNRocker wrote: |
| Any fighter that trains martial arts long enough, start developing this mental and emotional switch that goes off when in a threat. This switch is developed through developing the five main sences. That is why I always felt that meditation is a must for serious martial artists. Regardless of style of fighting, be it boxing, karate, jiu jistu, I think all martial arts can develop this switch that makes a normal person into a dangerous individual when backed into a corner. |
that's not true at all. I've taught seminars to MA and mentioned things like looking under your car as you approach it, and walking a few feet away from walls so you can see around the corners, and some of them were amazed, because these things had never occurred to them. Like anything else, awareness needs to be taught, not assumed. I never learned these things from MA, and I don't meditate. Even when I did, these things didn't occur to me. meditation makes you more self aware, not necessarily more situationally aware. I learned these things through either first or second hand experience. I've had a guy jump out at me from around a corner. I had a friend who was robbed by someone hiding under her car. Another friend was robbed by someone INSIDE his car, etc. |
I actually agree fully with teaching awareness, looking under the car, not going out to the alley at nights all those important things, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make wasn't that of developing a sixth sense but developing a personal transformation. A fighter becomes dangerous when the threat has become apparent, strictly in a fighting situation. The switch I'm explaining is the switch that turns a normal man into a fighting beast, but even a beast can be ambushed if not taught awareness.
I might have been a little off when I said "developing the five sences," I'll have the take that back, but otherwise I believe training in Martial Arts can develop a killer instinct, and meditation can help control it, contain it and release it when needed. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| CrazyAZNRocker wrote: |
| Any fighter that trains martial arts long enough, start developing this mental and emotional switch that goes off when in a threat. This switch is developed through developing the five main sences. That is why I always felt that meditation is a must for serious martial artists. Regardless of style of fighting, be it boxing, karate, jiu jistu, I think all martial arts can develop this switch that makes a normal person into a dangerous individual when backed into a corner. |
I don't believe that this case holds much water. There are people out there who are naturally aggressive. There are those that are not. The only way to fully develop this ability is to put yourself in situations in which it turns on....i.e., the street fight, the bar fight, or stepping into a full contact ring. Just training at class everyday is not going to develop it.
Have you ever heard of adrenale-stess training?
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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shukokai2000
Green Belt
Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 436
Location: manchester ENGLAND
Styles: shukokai shito-ryu ... boxing/kick boxing
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: |
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A good point my sensei said to me is for example here the when Police are training there "SpeedCops" traffic division during there test they have to verbally talk whilst driving on their awareness like people ahead, time, weather, traffic light ahead, whats going on behind etc etc etc.
So in other words when you are walking down the street talk to yourself what going on , the surroundings people around you etc, then after time it will become second nature... i think thats what some are trying to explain with the sixth sense.
As a tip dont talk out loud when doing the walking commentry as you may end up in a padded cell LOL |
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CrazyAZNRocker
Yellow Belt
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 80
Styles: Punching and Kicking, Elbows and Knees, Clinch and Grapple.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| CrazyAZNRocker wrote: |
| Any fighter that trains martial arts long enough, start developing this mental and emotional switch that goes off when in a threat. This switch is developed through developing the five main sences. That is why I always felt that meditation is a must for serious martial artists. Regardless of style of fighting, be it boxing, karate, jiu jistu, I think all martial arts can develop this switch that makes a normal person into a dangerous individual when backed into a corner. |
I don't believe that this case holds much water. There are people out there who are naturally aggressive. There are those that are not. The only way to fully develop this ability is to put yourself in situations in which it turns on....i.e., the street fight, the bar fight, or stepping into a full contact ring. Just training at class everyday is not going to develop it.
Have you ever heard of adrenale-stess training? |
The thing is, training is always much more than just showing up to class. Martial Arts class is just a small part of the entire training. When one wants to meditate, don't do it in a class, find time to do that. Train for power with a bag at ones own time. Have a variety sparring partners out of classes. Attend seminars and demontrations. Martial Artists have to make some time for further training. In that sense yes you are absolutely right, just training in class isn't going to develop the killer instinct.
I've only heard bits and pieces about Adrenal-stress training, but I know it's about learning how to deal with Adrenalin rushes and claims to help people more to be in more control in life threatening situations. I don't know the exact details however but it sounds interesting to check out, since experimenting is also part of a Martial Artist's traning. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| CrazyAZNRocker wrote: |
The thing is, training is always much more than just showing up to class. Martial Arts class is just a small part of the entire training. When one wants to meditate, don't do it in a class, find time to do that. Train for power with a bag at ones own time. Have a variety sparring partners out of classes. Attend seminars and demontrations. Martial Artists have to make some time for further training. In that sense yes you are absolutely right, just training in class isn't going to develop the killer instinct. |
Training in general won't develop very much killer instinct, when it comes to getting involved on the street. You can drill and train all you want, in any style you want. However, developing the killer instinct is not just going to be a side effect of this training. In order to develop it, you have to create the adrenaline dump affect, and basically make yourself come out of your comfort zone. Competitions can help with this, and the more contact, the better off you will be. Naturally, some people are just meaner than others, and they find it out early on, fighting in school or something like that.
I guess I should say that training can help you develop that killer instinct, but it has to be the right kind of training.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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CrazyAZNRocker
Yellow Belt
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 80
Styles: Punching and Kicking, Elbows and Knees, Clinch and Grapple.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
Training in general won't develop very much killer instinct, when it comes to getting involved on the street. You can drill and train all you want, in any style you want. However, developing the killer instinct is not just going to be a side effect of this training. In order to develop it, you have to create the adrenaline dump affect, and basically make yourself come out of your comfort zone. Competitions can help with this, and the more contact, the better off you will be. Naturally, some people are just meaner than others, and they find it out early on, fighting in school or something like that.
I guess I should say that training can help you develop that killer instinct, but it has to be the right kind of training. |
Despite how naturally agressive someone is, anyone can develop a killing instinct, some easier than others.
Being seriously involved in martial arts will develop the killer instinct. Not just involved, but seriously involved. Everything is important, training, meditation, technique, knowledge, open mindedness, discipline all very important to a serious Martial Artist. All leading up to a point where when a martial artist is cornered, instinct takes over and stops the opposistion, or atleast makes it possible to get away from the situation
At least that's what I believe, and what I've been able to experience. |
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elbows_and_knees
Black Belt
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1795
Styles: thai boxing, grappling
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| CrazyAZNRocker wrote: |
Despite how naturally agressive someone is, anyone can develop a killing instinct, some easier than others.
Being seriously involved in martial arts will develop the killer instinct. Not just involved, but seriously involved. Everything is important, training, meditation, technique, knowledge, open mindedness, discipline all very important to a serious Martial Artist. All leading up to a point where when a martial artist is cornered, instinct takes over and stops the opposistion, or atleast makes it possible to get away from the situation
At least that's what I believe, and what I've been able to experience. |
that's not true. Anyone can learn fighting skill, but not everyone can learn killer instinct. It's just not in some people. Just like not everyone can be a pro boxer or pro anything, for that matter. Some people just have that knack that sets them apart from others. If anyone could develop it, there would be a lot more pro athletes in every venue. "killer instinct" is no different. Not everyone is cut out to be a fighter. that's just how it is. For those that do develop killer instinct, training is not going to get it for them - experience will. think about the military. Who do you think has a more developed killer instinct - the soldier who went through boot camp, then got assigned to a job working as a cook, or an infantryman who is on the front lines in iraq shooting and getting shot at daily? the infantryman. Why? because he's got the experience. I do believe that MA can help everyone begin to develop such an instinct, but can only do so much. Not everyone is cut out to be a killer...
as for what's important, that will vary from person to person. For example, meditation is not important at all to me. |
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glockmeister
Green Belt
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 490
Location: Pa
Styles: Haganah, Krav Maga, JKD, Kickboxing,BJJ, Judo
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:43 am Post subject: |
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[quote=
that's not true. Anyone can learn fighting skill, but not everyone can learn killer instinct. It's just not in some people. Just like not everyone can be a pro boxer or pro anything, for that matter. Some people just have that knack that sets them apart from others. If anyone could develop it, there would be a lot more pro athletes in every venue. "killer instinct" is no different. Not everyone is cut out to be a fighter. /quote]
Everyone has some level of the "Killer instinct" in them. We are by nature predaters. Killer instinct has nothing to do with boxing, ring fighting, etc. It is an inborne survival trait. It is that very trait that will push a modern day "soccer mom" into resorting to cannibalism to save herself from starvation if she found herself lost in the wilderness after a plane crash or who will gouge out the eyes of a person she feels will harm her child when all her life she could never so much as bring herself to step on a bug, or a child who uses Dad's gun to shoot an intruder who is raping one of his sisters, etc, even though this person has never shown any inclination towards violence.
Not trying to get too technical, but let's not confuse terms here.
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"You know the best thing about pain? It let's you know you're not dead yet!"
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elbows_and_knees
Black Belt
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1795
Styles: thai boxing, grappling
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| glockmeister wrote: |
Everyone has some level of the "Killer instinct" in them. We are by nature predaters. Killer instinct has nothing to do with boxing, ring fighting, etc. It is an inborne survival trait. It is that very trait that will push a modern day "soccer mom" into resorting to cannibalism to save herself from starvation if she found herself lost in the wilderness after a plane crash or who will gouge out the eyes of a person she feels will harm her child when all her life she could never so much as bring herself to step on a bug, or a child who uses Dad's gun to shoot an intruder who is raping one of his sisters, etc, even though this person has never shown any inclination towards violence.
Not trying to get too technical, but let's not confuse terms here. |
No confusion at all. That is an inborn train that is of different intensities in different individuals, and has been repressed by all due to the nature of the civilized societies that we live in, hence the my reference to learning it. The soccermom example isn't killer instinct at all. It's adherence to our most simple, basic instinct. The need to eat. Unless she's killing half dead survivors, then that is not killer instinct. |
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Menjo
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 1786
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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I think the intensity of a person's killer instinct is determined by early childhood or certain conditions throught life. We just wouldn't be people without that side to us.
So since were animals, that pretty much means deep down we follow the same patterns of other animals, eating, growing, reproducing and so on, so take a dog, beat it for 3 years, and see how it grows up. We all know the result, ancient militaries used this effectively for proof. It just takes the right formula. Of course humans would compare differently, but under the right conditions they would reach that point. Everyone can learn it.
| elbows_and_knees wrote: |
No confusion at all. That is an inborn train that is of different intensities in different individuals, and has been repressed by all due to the nature of the civilized societies that we live in, hence the my reference to learning it. The soccermom example isn't killer instinct at all. It's adherence to our most simple, basic instinct. The need to eat. Unless she's killing half dead survivors, then that is not killer instinct. |
If someone could show me a "civilized society" I'd be pretty surprised, we can't completely escape our nature, yet. Everything we do is a result from our primitive nature, for example, sex.
I think everyone has a violent side, how well they would fare in a fight is different than the fact that they would resort to acting in that way.
Being born ultimately dictates that the person will have a killer instinct in my opinion, since it seems that a growing enviroment is one of the main if not the biggest factors in agression.
| elbows_and_knees wrote: |
| For those that do develop killer instinct, training is not going to get it for them - experience will. |
Those are very broad terms and it depends how one would train, one could fight gangs, and call that training and it really is training or some would call that experiance, either way, it still has the end result of the trained or experianced fighter.
There are always exceptions of course.
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"Time is what we want most, but what we use worst"
William Penn |
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on the post.
