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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:13 pm    Post subject: Master Wong YouTube Reply with quote

There are many videos of Master Wong on YouTube teaching Chinese martial arts, such as Wing Chun and Tai Chi; as well as JKD and self defense.

When I first discovered his presence on YouTube about a year ago (he has been teaching for about 15 years) I thought this guy was a renegade monk (that traded his orange robes for a trendy track suit) straight out of China to convert the U.K into a martial art boot camp.

He is quick witted with a crude sense of humor, to get his points of view across, on how to treat your enemies. Never seen this unusual language mix of Chinese terms in a redneck urban way of teaching martial arts before, till now!

He seemed a bit extreme and fast talking like on a caffeine and sugar rush, creating healthy controversy on what techniques work and those that don't.

He has alot of energy and enthusiasm for his martial arts that reminded me of Bruce Lee somewhat, not lacking in the confidence area also.

More importantly, Master Wong has an undeniable similarity to Bruce Lee in the small guy vs everyone attitude, with dedication and practice.

Many times he has told people that their techniques won't work because they are not strong enough. That there enemies are gorillas and not fairys! Or uses cave man time and modern times analogys that nothing has really changed that much.

No shortage of emotional content within his martial art techniques combined with a boxing breathing style.

Started watching more of Master Wongs videos and surprisingly noticing myself agreeing with his points of views.

The more Master Wongs videos I watched, the more I agreed on his comments and points of views.

Watching his videos for me is like, what's not to agree with, he is telling it the way it is.

Master Wong has a down to earth approach about him when explaining his martial arts principles, he uses people bigger than himself for example opponents and uses himself as the attacker when the supposed victim is smaller.

Master Wong is making alot of noise, this is just his style I suppose. He swears at his students and seems at times abusive to them and yet they seem to respect him all the more for it. As if this is the way martial arts has been taught and passed down through the centuries.

Master Wong seems like he has traveled through time in a mystical way and ended up in Ipswich? (Ipswich that also reminds me of Ipman)

I'm guessing Ipswich is a great place as any to train in, there most definitely seems to be a track suit fashion explosion there and Master Wong could be in-directly responsible for it.

Master Wong also reminds me of Mr T, that they both share similar attitudes, also Master Wong has a charisma of 'Yul Brynner' the actor from 'The King and I"

There is most definitely many qualities that Master Wong posses that makes him an outstanding teacher being knowledgeable and enthusiastic just for starters.

Where does Master Wong comes from? Vietnam! Arrived in the U.K at around 11 years old.

There has been some negativity about Master Wong, because of those that need linage as proof of authenticity...
I'm certainly not going to discredit him in any way shape or form for that, he stands on his own two feet and in many ways has tried to unravel alot of the martial art knots (single handedly) that has restricted styles in recent years.

From my standpoint he is a refreshing new face in the martial arts world, marketing him self, using the internet as a way to put his ideas out in to the world at large. Also he is very interactive within the martial art community in an unpretentious way.

Have read some negative views on his techniques not being authentic, sorry cannot agree on that one. Master Wong at times uses Chinese Wing Chun terminology while demonstrating techniques, this adds to the impact, very much like a Japanese karate (Kia)

Master Wong has his own interpretations of the form "Sil Lum Tao" different to all the other Masters of Wing Chun and all the other masters are different also.
Actually I like Master Wongs version equally as much as the other masters.

If Wing Chun is a living breathing changing and evolving martial art then Master Wong is adapting it to be in the now! Grapplers for instance are wiping the floor with traditional Wing Chun kung fu martial artists. The reason for this is because the style becomes more important than the practioner. As Master Wong is also a JKDist he understands that the person is more important than the style "so do what you need to save your neck"

Also MMA's are wise to the Wing Chun tricks of the trade. Master Wong raises many points and the realitys that are apparent problems in the 21st Century for Wing Chun-ners.

Another down to earth Wing Chun practioner is (Grand) Master Wong Shun Leung, a student of Ip Man and teacher of Bruce Lee, died in 1997. He was known as "king of talking hands". He made an instructional film called "The Science of in Fighting"

I look forward to watching more of our contemporary Master Wong videos, how about you?
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TJ-Jitsu
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im divided somewhat with him. In my opinion hes incredibly open minded for a wing chun practicioner. I mean, Im terribly surprised that he practices ACTUAL grappling and doesnt do "anti-grappling."

Some things are a little out there though- I saw one where he was asked about boxers, and he was very much... how should I put it, "off" with his assumptions and whatnot. I mean, to suggest that you're going to elbow an incoming boxers punch is a little ridiculous, along with the concept that hes going to throw a punch and then leave it out there for to counter it or do something with it....

BUT

From what I've seen of him, he might have shown me the most important thing- the potential to change his mind when either confronted with evidence or if his technique is defeated.

All in all, Im more pro him than anti, but I have to see too many videos either....
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJ-Jitsu wrote:
Im divided somewhat with him. In my opinion hes incredibly open minded for a wing chun practicioner. I mean, Im terribly surprised that he practices ACTUAL grappling and doesnt do "anti-grappling."

Some things are a little out there though- I saw one where he was asked about boxers, and he was very much... how should I put it, "off" with his assumptions and whatnot. I mean, to suggest that you're going to elbow an incoming boxers punch is a little ridiculous, along with the concept that hes going to throw a punch and then leave it out there for to counter it or do something with it....

BUT

From what I've seen of him, he might have shown me the most important thing- the potential to change his mind when either confronted with evidence or if his technique is defeated.

All in all, Im more pro him than anti, but I have to see too many videos either....
Master Wong isn't just a Wing Chun man, he is equally proficient at JKD and Tai Chi.

Yes he is very open minded, yet he doesn't loose his sense of reality and knows the differences between fighting on the street in a ring or in a cage, he also recognizes and umderstands the shortcomings and disasters awaiting those that don't train or adapt to modern fighting circumstances.

Master Wong eats sleeps and works Martial arts 24/7 in fast forward mode; I've needed to slow down his fast talking video clips just to understand what he is talking about.

As mentioned using (Wing Chun) an elbow strike (Ding Jarn) to stop incoming punches, it does seem inappropriate at first glance, but from a perspective from fighters that use the ground to generate power it would seem wrong.

Consider a grappler using these elbow strikes to a person's face while sitting on the opponent's stomach and knees are on the ground, all the power is coming from the hacking motion from the shoulder and no force or energy is coming from the ground.

Using the elbows to stop a punch from a very skilled and knowledgeable Wing Chun fighter is using perfect form and judgement. As the skilled WC fighters engine shouldn't be reliant on using the ground for generating power.

An imaginary senerio of a WC man in outer space fighting with a fighter that generates power from the ground.
The WC man can hit with all of the usual parts of his body, flicking out strikes and it will not disturb where he is.

As when meeting force with equal force (such as a elbow with a punch) but when the person that usally generates power to make strikes or blows from the use of the ground both fighters will fly off in two opposite directions as it is a pushing type of engine, whereas the WC engine doesn't need a suface.

Bruce Lee snaps his low front kicks in this manner (power coming from the knee)

The same idea when two hockey players fight, they are using the same type of force as WC fighters, this is why they both hold on to each other adding stability and pulling the opponent in to the strike.

Two men jumping out of an airplane with parachutes unopened fighting in a free fall, again this is the WC fighting engine, in (Russian System) it is referred to as using balistic strikes; that can shoot out in all directions.

So when Master Wong uses his elbows to stop a boxer's punches, perhaps consider what he is doing as a ballistic elbow jamming technique, a suitable effect method, that would be similar for a boxer punching a solid brick wall.

Can be difficult to comprehend that the Wing Chun style has no blocks; instead deflecting and wedging tactics are used instead.

Wing Chun is very deceptive, sometimes too much so that even those that practice the style can understandably fool or confuse themselves to no end...
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TJ-Jitsu
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:

As mentioned using (Wing Chun) an elbow strike (Ding Jarn) to stop incoming punches, it does seem inappropriate at first glance, but from a perspective from fighters that use the ground to generate power it would seem wrong....


All power is generated from the ground. I mean, it doesnt HAVE to be generated from the ground but that is the most efficient and most powerful way of doing it. Thats really small fish though, the problem is this:

A fist is going to be moving significantly faster and more often than a bigger slower target- your opponents head for example. If you think its logical to elbow someones fist, then it follows that its significantly easier to hit something much bigger and much slower (the head...) that doesnt move nearly as fast. This is the rationale for body shots, for example. When I see a wing chun guy (or someone thats using wing chun I should say) effectively counter a boxers techniques, I'll start to give credence to the concept of elbowing the fist. If you cant hit the head you're asking way too much for me to give you any room for claiming to time a significant faster and more mobile target...


Alan Armstrong wrote:
Consider a grappler using these elbow strikes to a person's face while sitting on the opponent's stomach and knees are on the ground, all the power is coming from the hacking motion from the shoulder and no force or energy is coming from the ground.


No its not, at least again- not effectively. Effective ground and pound is done with your feet on the ground as again- thats where your power comes from. It doesnt have to be this way and many may not, but then its not as powerful.


Alan Armstrong wrote:

Using the elbows to stop a punch from a very skilled and knowledgeable Wing Chun fighter is using perfect form and judgement. As the skilled WC fighters engine shouldn't be reliant on using the ground for generating power.


That actually helps to explain so much of what I see....

Alan Armstrong wrote:

The same idea when two hockey players fight, they are using the same type of force as WC fighters, this is why they both hold on to each other adding stability and pulling the opponent in to the strike.



You're mistaken on that one too- I was quite a proficient hockey player prior to fighting. All the power is again drawn from the ground or in this case- the ice. Its the balance and ability to drive and pull your opponent off balance thats most important in a hockey fight. The punches are going to come and go- its the balance (and off balancing of your opponent) thats going to make the difference as to whether they have power or not...

Alan Armstrong wrote:

So when Master Wong uses his elbows to stop a boxer's punches, perhaps consider what he is doing as a ballistic elbow jamming technique, a suitable effect method, that would be similar for a boxer punching a solid brick wall.

Can be difficult to comprehend that the Wing Chun style has no blocks; instead deflecting and wedging tactics are used instead.

Wing Chun is very deceptive, sometimes too much so that even those that practice the style can understandably fool or confuse themselves to no end...


When he can effectively hit a boxers face (i.e. a student who wears boxing gloves does not equal a boxer...) then I just might start to listen to the idea of attacking your opponents punch. I do not think hes actually worked against a proficient boxer though, which makes sense given the techniques hes attempting....
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wing Chun is not the same as boxing therefore the Wing Chun man isn't going to trade punches like a boxer or much of anything else for that matter.

Wing Chun isn't a sport and boxing is. There are those however that use there Wimg Chun in a type of competitive boxing maner; something I don't adhere to.

Using a forearm to jam a boxing punch is similar to a baseball player slamming a bat against a basball. As the Wing Chun elbow strike is traveling in a horizontal trajectory meeting an incoming fist; the boxers energy is delivered from the ground, whereas the Wing Chun force is coming from the twist of the waist and hip.

The baseball is usally intercepted or it is simply allowed to slip by; this is also true with the fundamental Wing Chun concepts or yielding and jamming.

Many Wing Chun techniques are setups in conjunction with deflecting and jamming, the forarm meeting a punch is an intercepting maneuver, it is a millisecond shock concept to interrupt the opponent's flow; opening another option to follow up on.

This shock concept needs to be followed up with a real strike or a feint or something equally unpredictable.

Master Wong's version isn't carved in rock as the holy grail Wing Chun standard that the world should bow down to, what works for him might not work for others.

If you see a crack in one of Master Wong's techniques perhaps it is because he is slowing it down for people to see. The opposite is true with Bruce Lee with the need to slow down the film to see what he did in an instant.
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TJ-Jitsu
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Wing Chun is not the same as boxing therefore the Wing Chun man isn't going to trade punches like a boxer or much of anything else for that matter.

Wing Chun isn't a sport and boxing is. There are those however that use there Wimg Chun in a type of competitive boxing maner; something I don't adhere to.

Using a forearm to jam a boxing punch is similar to a baseball player slamming a bat against a basball. As the Wing Chun elbow strike is traveling in a horizontal trajectory meeting an incoming fist; the boxers energy is delivered from the ground, whereas the Wing Chun force is coming from the twist of the waist and hip.

The baseball is usally intercepted or it is simply allowed to slip by; this is also true with the fundamental Wing Chun concepts or yielding and jamming.

Many Wing Chun techniques are setups in conjunction with deflecting and jamming, the forarm meeting a punch is an intercepting maneuver, it is a millisecond shock concept to interrupt the opponent's flow; opening another option to follow up on.

This shock concept needs to be followed up with a real strike or a feint or something equally unpredictable.

Master Wong's version isn't carved in rock as the holy grail Wing Chun standard that the world should bow down to, what works for him might not work for others.

If you see a crack in one of Master Wong's techniques perhaps it is because he is slowing it down for people to see. The opposite is true with Bruce Lee with the need to slow down the film to see what he did in an instant.


You know Bruce kinda stopped doing his wing chun to pursue boxing more, yeah? On top of it, the fact that boxing is a sport is an advantage over wing chun- Its more beneificial for martial arts to become a sport, because their practitioners can now practice full contact (in some of them anyways) and learn real life fighting experience.
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tallgeese
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eh. 50/50. Like TJ said, he shows an open mindedness on some levels that I can appreciate. I think a lot of his stuff is pretty theoretical but again, I don't spend a ton of time watching him.

Quite frankly, more than his technique, this demeanor drives me crazy. Even when I find myself agreeing with him I can barely finish one of his videos. This does not make his WC bad, ore make him a poor instructor. It just means I don't personally care fore the over the top presentation.
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Master Wong was originally from Vietnam, a place that has a very strong Wing Chun style that includes acrobatics and chi kung.

I view Master Wong as a well rounded martial artist.

He isn't a carbon copy of anyone else that I can recall. Who else is doing what he is doing in the way he is doing it, with so much enthusiasm for his martial art?

He isn't selling cemetery plots with a sympathetic sad face instead he is very much alive with an in your face attitude whiling to help anyone and everyone with martial art questions.

There are many celebrity martial artists, perhaps Master Wong will become in the future a martial art star, that got there through his own determination and perseverance; I hope he can continue to do what he is doing for many more years to come.
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guird
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He says some things that I agree with or intuitively make sense, but for watching a video to be constructive you need to be told things you didn't know or didn't agree with, as well as assurance that what you are hearing is correct.

I feel master Wong's videos lack that assurance. he shows a lot of interesting ideas which i would be interested to see put into practice, but Wong never provides any examples of this.
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

guird wrote:
He says some things that I agree with or intuitively make sense, but for watching a video to be constructive you need to be told things you didn't know or didn't agree with, as well as assurance that what you are hearing is correct.

I feel master Wong's videos lack that assurance. he shows a lot of interesting ideas which i would be interested to see put into practice, but Wong never provides any examples of this.
One thing Master Wong is not and that is a text book martial artist. My vote for him is his bluntness and not on the other side of the coin being pedantic and boring that some others do by not getting to the point.
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