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norse_dragon
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 01 Jan 2019
Posts: 6


PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:28 pm    Post subject: Minosaka sai? Reply with quote

Hello, I'm interested in sai, that I at least believe is produced by Minosaka. However I have found little about them save for a couple of reviews on Seido.
https://www.seidoshop.com/products/chrome-sai

The only other two shops online I've found was https://www.masamune-store.com/mekki-sai,us,4,BU_AD_MEK_SAI.cfm
and https://www.konjaku.fr/catalogue/le-japon-passion/sai-minosaka.html

Does anyone know much about these sai, and can give some insight, as well as why they at least to appear to be little known?

I'm interested in it and what can be told of them. As of why I'm interested in them as a middle ground between the cheaper ones with the bubbled out moto above the tsuka and the expensive pro sai out there.

I have bought one from Seido, starting with one to save on money, and I'm thinking about getting the second soon.

Its great, really well made! Not hand-forged according to my father who was a master machinist capable of telling, but it is very beautifully made. He said that he can see, however see that this was not stamped out of one piece.

No point, likely due to the sword and gun laws, but I suppose this could help it pass off as a sai-jitte? It even seems to have more narrow wings.

This is a very practical sai, from what I see, by that I mean its not one for doing tricks with the wings. But then again, it can be done, at least I can, it just takes more focus.
Before anyone groans at the talk of tricks, I only warm up with these as mere warmup exercises before I get into doing sai kabudo and sinawali drills.

I'm no professional and haven't received any official sai or martial arts training aside from online tutorials, but I think I would recommend this as a weighted weapon for solo conditioning kata training.

I say this because first minutes even in merely handling and doing some basic maneuvers such as grip-flipping, blocks, and strikes- my hands and arms felt worn and strong as if I could deliver and deflect heavier blows with them or something!

And yet it when pinched at the shoulders as in the sai-kabudo open grip, it becomes extremely live in the hand, like a large stiletto dagger or something!

Anyways, I'm looking forward to hearing some insight on them.


Last edited by norse_dragon on Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bulltahr
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 603
Location: NEW ZEALAND
Styles: Shotokan, Seido Juku

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure why you would need a sharp point????
Go here when you are ready for custom. Nice guy, tailor made to YOUR dimensions. http://www.worbingtonsteele.com/
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norse_dragon
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 01 Jan 2019
Posts: 6


PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bulltahr wrote:
Not sure why you would need a sharp point????
Go here when you are ready for custom. Nice guy, tailor made to YOUR dimensions. http://www.worbingtonsteele.com/


A point would be merely aesthetic, really. Almost everybody I show it to makes note of it. That does make for more conversation though, as it brings up Japan's Sword and Gun laws.

I'll think about Worbington sometime, but for now the topic is on Minosaka sai.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14301
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to KF, norse_dragon; glad that you're here!!

Personally, I've never purchased any Sai's from any of those referenced in the OP or in Bulltahr's post, for no particular reason(s). I buy most of my Sai's mainly from Century, also for no particular reason(s); they serve me well across the board.

As far as the points being sharpened, it's not new for me because I first saw Sai with sharpened points back in the mid 1970's. I've also seen what those types of Sai's can do to the practitioner should a mistake occur...not good at all.



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Chunmonchek
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 174

Styles: Goju

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no experience with the above sai, and the only Sai that I own and have worked with on a regular basis are various Shureido models and a pair of custom forged Sai, that are very close to Shureido in dimensions. The benefit of Shureido Sai is that they are available in a few different sizes and materials. Depending on how you are taught, size and fit may be very important (it is with us). Additionally, I prefer carbon steel over stainless steel and chrome plated. Carbon steel can be carefully bent for a custom fit. Stainless tends to be slippery if your hands get sweaty, and Chrome can chip on contact, leaving sharp edges.
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norse_dragon
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 01 Jan 2019
Posts: 6


PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Welcome to KF, norse_dragon; glad that you're here!!

Personally, I've never purchased any Sai's from any of those referenced in the OP or in Bulltahr's post, for no particular reason(s). I buy most of my Sai's mainly from Century, also for no particular reason(s); they serve me well across the board.

As far as the points being sharpened, it's not new for me because I first saw Sai with sharpened points back in the mid 1970's. I've also seen what those types of Sai's can do to the practitioner should a mistake occur...not good at all.



Thank you for the welcome. I'll consider doing a more formal introduction in the specified forum sometime.

To be frank, I wasn't sure if I'd get much results, my main goal was to at least have something other there on these sai in case they were looking into them as well.
I realize now that the differant links could be confusing, but they are all one in the same, my intention was to show that they are the only sources for them.

Although even Seido, their seller even admitted that they are "average quality" I am really liking mine. Granted I have no experience with other sai, I still commend it for solo strength drill training.

I've been having a lot of fun while getting great workouts from it and have even came up with a style to train with until my other one arrives.

I call it sai-rochin. Pretty much a hybrid between the Kabudo styles of sai and rochin-tinbe, where the sai replaces the tinbe shield, using closed grip sai techinques intstead. And for a rochin, I use a Cold Steel bowie.

And I don't only use the sai defensively in closed position, as I also altnerate the roles of each weapon. For an example, I'll switch the sai to open position and have it take the rochin's place with similar open sai techniques, while the 'rochin' is used to perform wrenching parrying moves of the sides and spine of the blade.



And as for the tips, they are devoid of any kind, not even rounded- they are flat as a table. It makes sense, because the maker is Minosaka, renowned for iaito. Due to sword laws, they can't make any that can be sharpened and need to use a special nickel based alloy to avoid this.

So they probably transferred this mindset with their sai and made it to where they couldn't be any means be sharpened at the tip.

Not that I'd want tips, I'm just expressing thoughts on the matter.
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