Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Internal Arts and Philosophy
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1723

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:19 am    Post subject: Misuse and abuse of MA Reply with quote

It is well known that martial arts have rules of conduct, morals and ethics usually taught through some kind of philosophy. Whatever the origin of the arts there are some rules that are universal. Especially these two:

Character development and improvement(self control, patience, respect etc)

Unprovoked attacks or trivial fighting are wrong. Martial skills are a last resort response for self defense.

Unfortunaly sometimes there are people who never learned or understood these lessons.

What is the worst abuse or misuse of martial arts you have ever seen or heard of personally?

Were you able to do anything about it? If so, did you handle the situation?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27760
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard of people around here in the past that would go to the bars and start things so they could use their skills. That's a huge misuse, in my mind. However, its been documented in the past that MAists had challenged others, although this isn't as common as it used to be.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

mal103
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 559


PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Character development and improvement(self control, patience, respect etc)
Humility should be the primary influence for MAists. Self Control - some train and hit too hard. Patience - some want a Black belt tomorrow but can't be asked to work for it. Respect - has to be earnt both ways.
Probably the worst scenario is like mine when you realise that "Sensei" is a money grabbing fraudster who has lost their skills over time and you have to then change your technique to fit the rest of the MA that you train. You have been mis-sold MA.

2. Unprovoked attacks or trivial fighting are wrong. Martial skills are a last resort response for self defense.
It's okay to train hard and try your skills against others, so long as it's with willing training partners. Actually using these skills should be an absolute last resort! It's strange we train to fight hard and the harder we train the less likely we are to want to actually use the skills.
Learning more about fighting should provoke the average person to not want to do it for real, however we train.
There are no winners, you have the best win by being able to walk away without a punch being thrown, even better with the aggressor re-considering their actions....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Harkon72
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 1875
Location: Wales
Styles: Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Ninpo.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going into bars and starting trouble? I wouldn't recommend it. As we say here in rural Wales, it's like a jungle in these parts, it's pretty and peaceful and all the little monkeys mind their own business and life is good. But if people start to go around shaking the trees and upsetting the little monkeys, they will soon find out that bigger monkeys start appearing and life will get a little more difficult. You may think that you are hard, but there is always harder.
_________________
Look to the far mountain and see all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Archimoto
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 12 Apr 2014
Posts: 548

Styles: JKD / Muay Thai / TKD

PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree the example above (trivial fighting, the bar example) is one of the most egregious misuses. I have also seen, albeit rarely, folks who use their training as a source of intimidation over others. The most common example of this is the knucklehead who's jacked up at the gym and goes around wearing a MA t-shirt looking down at others. Disclaimer: I'm not saying that all people who wear MA tees are this type !!!
_________________
To quote the great Bob Marley: "LOVE IS MY RELIGION"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14405
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Black Sheep" types do exist in everything that's ever been created!

What is held dear by one, is held in contempt by another. In this, the MA is surely not an exception. We must, and can only, master ourselves, albeit, we can't speak for others because they decide for themselves one way or another in being moral and the like...or to turn away from the moral courage.

I treat others how I would want to be treated. In that, 'I', is my responsibility is to demonstrate that moral courage to my students and my fellow MAists at all times; without pause and/or ambiguity.

It's a fine line, but only if it's painted that way!! The course is for us to keep it straight and true. Nonetheless, to navigate on that unswerving course of moral turpitude, not only as a MAist, but as a human being.

To take the MA and to treat it as though it has no value is a disgrace!! The MA isn't for anyone to do with as they desire. No! The MA isn't ours solely to do with as one wishes. As a MAist, my MA journey IS MINE, and mine alone because it is mine. The MA isn't mine; I train in it, but I don't own it, therefore, the MA is for everyone would desires it, but there is a price to pay, to be for sure.

That price is the path of honor!!

Those who desire to foul the MA by their putrid actions don't deserve to share the floor with those who've truly sworn to honor the MA and their fellow MAists and themselves.

Those "black sheep" types will be amongst us for as long as impurity exists!!

Imho!!



_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!!


Last edited by sensei8 on Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Archimoto
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 12 Apr 2014
Posts: 548

Styles: JKD / Muay Thai / TKD

PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
"Black Sheep" types do exist in everything that's ever been created!

What is held dear by one, is held is contempt by another. In this, the MA is surely not an exception. We must, and can only, master ourselves, albeit, we can't speak for others because they decide for themselves one way or another in being moral and the like...or to turn away from the moral courage.

I treat others how I would want to be treated. In that, 'I', is my responsibility is to demonstrate that moral courage to my students and my fellow MAists at all times; without pause and/or ambiguity.

It's a fine line, but only if it's painted that way!! The course is for us to keep it straight and true. Nonetheless, to navigate on that unswerving course of moral turpitude, not only as a MAist, but as a human being.

To take the MA and to treat it as though it has no value is a disgrace!! The MA isn't for anyone to do with as they desire. No! The MA isn't ours solely to do with as one wishes. As a MAist, my MA journey IS MINE, and mine alone because it is mine. The MA isn't mine; I train in it, but I don't own it, therefore, the MA is for everyone would desires it, but there is a price to pay, to be for sure.

That price is the path of honor!!

Those who desire to foul the MA by their putrid actions don't deserve to share the floor with those who've truly sworn to honor the MA and their fellow MAists and themselves.

Those "black sheep" types will be amongst us for as long as impurity exists!!

Imho!!




I like all of your posts...some more than others...and this one I LOVE!!!

_________________
To quote the great Bob Marley: "LOVE IS MY RELIGION"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1723

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whenever I have heard of or witnessed somebody misuse or abuse martial arts I could not help feeling offended. It makes me even angrier when the person abusing martial art knowledge and skill practises the same martial art or style that I do.

Anyone using martial arts to deceive or take advantage of others is wrong. Worse than frauds are those who use martial arts as a weapon for unjustifiable gratuitous violence. Thugs, bullies and other unscrupulous despicable brutes.

It is quite unfortunate that the martial arts seem to attract these types. Especially if the instructor does not care to or neglects to examine what kind of people he is teaching.

The worst I have ever personally witnessed was someone from my group who went out of his way to look for trouble outside. At the time I could not do anything because I was too young and inexperienced. His case eventually caught the attention of the sensei resulting in his expulsion and exclusion from many dojos because most martial arts teachers in town were friends or at least acquaintances. Word got around quick and none of them wanted anything to do with someone who would give them a reputation for training thugs.

The second incident was an adult student who struck a 10-12 year old student twice. The adult was also not a beginner. This time, I was assisting while the main instructor was away. I told him to leave and not return without the instructors permission and an apology to the child.

Violence is always wrong if it is unjust or used against the weak and defenseless. It is much more evil and contemptible when it is done by skilled, trained persons who know how to cause maximum damage and are aware of this.

Martial skills without the guidance of morals and philosophy is but the most abject and bestial thuggery.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14405
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
Whenever I have heard of or witnessed somebody misuse or abuse martial arts I could not help feeling offended. It makes me even angrier when the person abusing martial art knowledge and skill practises the same martial art or style that I do.

Anyone using martial arts to deceive or take advantage of others is wrong. Worse than frauds are those who use martial arts as a weapon for unjustifiable gratuitous violence. Thugs, bullies and other unscrupulous despicable brutes.

It is quite unfortunate that the martial arts seem to attract these types. Especially if the instructor does not care to or neglects to examine what kind of people he is teaching.

The worst I have ever personally witnessed was someone from my group who went out of his way to look for trouble outside. At the time I could not do anything because I was too young and inexperienced. His case eventually caught the attention of the sensei resulting in his expulsion and exclusion from many dojos because most martial arts teachers in town were friends or at least acquaintances. Word got around quick and none of them wanted anything to do with someone who would give them a reputation for training thugs.

The second incident was an adult student who struck a 10-12 year old student twice. The adult was also not a beginner. This time, I was assisting while the main instructor was away. I told him to leave and not return without the instructors permission and an apology to the child.

Violence is always wrong if it is unjust or used against the weak and defenseless. It is much more evil and contemptible when it is done by skilled, trained persons who know how to cause maximum damage and are aware of this.

Martial skills without the guidance of morals and philosophy is but the most abject and bestial thuggery.

Solid post!!



_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1723

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abuse of martial arts bothers me very much now but I wonder how I would deal with it if I were an instructor. What if it was someone to whom I taught that was using what I taught him to pick fights or worse to beat others and other serious criminal violence?

In the past, the instructor would personally confront and stop a student gone rogue. Then again this type of justice was probably only in extreme cases due to instructors evaluating and selecting students before deciding to teach.

Nowadays anyone can pay for instruction. Instructors may not feel so responsible for what students are doing outside the dojo and I doubt many of them would go as far as going after a student themselves if they found out they "created a monster".

I have been to quite a few dojos and trained both in the West and in the homeland of karate. A few had a token mention of the subject and only one had a very explicit warning and discussion about it.

I watched two pieces of media that made me start this rant. The first one is the incident of a sensei instructing his senior student to viciously beat a man inflicting crippling and possibly fatal injuries. This so-called instructor was trained in Okinawa.

The second is a documentary on a mobster called Tommy Karate who used what he learned for mafia hits or to kill people who got in his way. Again this man had good skills and was trained by Japanese and American teachers who apparently were very proud of their student. I'm guessing this before they knew he was a mafia killer for hire. If they ever did know I wonder what they thought.

End Rant.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Internal Arts and Philosophy All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >