Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> BJJ, Judo, Jujitsu, Aikido, and Grappling Martial Arts
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

tallgeese
KF VIP

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6857
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 11:49 pm    Post subject: Mount Escape, Sport vs. Self Defense Reply with quote

This week, we drilled escapes from mount. The fundamental movements of jiu jitsu, the art, is at the core of everything we do. Those fundamentals are what build either the sportive art movements or the movements that create a core self defense system. All facets of jiu jitsu are worth striving after but we really need to understand the difference in the need and techniques of each.

Here, we compare and contrast a mount escape out of an artistic lens and one from a self defense outlook. Please note, there's overlap for sure, and there is very rarely only one domain that a tactic can be placed in as certain movements of it may apply elsewhere based on the dynamics of movement.

There's also some drill work included that is great for stress inoculation to dealing with a top assault:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZkWtxzpBi8

So, who uses these or variants of these? Do you have certain tactics that that apply to only a single outlet for your art? Or do you see overlap from one to the other? Has anyone leaned hard lessons about the capabilities of tactics in a given situation?
_________________
http://alphajiujitsu.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJhRVuwbm__LwXPvFMReMww
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28975
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The technique Dan demonstrated is the one Royce taught us for the GRACIE defensive tactics course. Pretty much verbatim. In the book, its referred to as "umpa with swim and trap." We use that variation if the attacker is postured up and striking, and we have a variation that we use if the attacker is choking, but they are both umpa variations. Your version is not one I had seen before.

I do have a concern with the umpa with swim and trap technique, though. Its a problem I have, but I don't see it with many others doing it. There are times when I will do the hip bump, but it doesn't get the desired result of knocking them forward and off-balance. I don't know if its because I have short legs, and don't generate the angle needed to get them off balance, or what, but I have trouble with it a times. I fix it by instead sitting up and wrapping my arms around their body, and then pulling them down onto their hands, and then swim and trap; I thank the head instructor at our DT club for showing that variation. My question to you, Alex, and anyone versed in BJJ, is what do you think is going wrong for me there?

I loved seeing a glimpse of the drills you did, and seeing how they were used in class. I also love the compare and contrast approach you had in this video between sport and self-defense. Keep up the good work, Alex, and keep the videos coming!
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15454
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice tutorial, Alex; as always!! Thank you for sharing it.

Quote:
So, who uses these or variants of these? Do you have certain tactics that that apply to only a single outlet for your art? Or do you see overlap from one to the other? Has anyone leaned hard lessons about the capabilities of tactics in a given situation?

No situations are always general. Therefore, I...use these as well as variants of these...so does any practitioner of Shindokan. No, we've no certain tactics because, Soke believed that it was limiting to the practitioner, and therefore, we must look for other opportunities, and things change in a moment. I see the overlapping quite a lot, but I've also noticed that that also depends on the practitioners experience/knowledge...the more one has, the more one can adapt, alas, the one knows less, the less one can adapt. The hard lesson I've learnt over the years is that the capabilities of tactics in any given situation depends on whether we're doing sport or art; art, imho, demands more than sport.




_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

tallgeese
KF VIP

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6857
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
The technique Dan demonstrated is the one Royce taught us for the GRACIE defensive tactics course. Pretty much verbatim. In the book, its referred to as "umpa with swim and trap." We use that variation if the attacker is postured up and striking, and we have a variation that we use if the attacker is choking, but they are both umpa variations. Your version is not one I had seen before.

I do have a concern with the umpa with swim and trap technique, though. Its a problem I have, but I don't see it with many others doing it. There are times when I will do the hip bump, but it doesn't get the desired result of knocking them forward and off-balance. I don't know if its because I have short legs, and don't generate the angle needed to get them off balance, or what, but I have trouble with it a times. I fix it by instead sitting up and wrapping my arms around their body, and then pulling them down onto their hands, and then swim and trap; I thank the head instructor at our DT club for showing that variation. My question to you, Alex, and anyone versed in BJJ, is what do you think is going wrong for me there?

I loved seeing a glimpse of the drills you did, and seeing how they were used in class. I also love the compare and contrast approach you had in this video between sport and self-defense. Keep up the good work, Alex, and keep the videos coming!


Thank you, Brian! Glad that you're liking what we're doing.

As to the upa not working out as it should there could be a couple of reasons. First up you might not be doing anything wrong. Sometimes, people you're working with are just better with balance, base etc. Maybe they have more experience, maybe they are more athletic and can cheat the system that way. There are multipe reasons. That said, if you feel like it should be working, take a look at where you're placing your feet in relation to your hips prior to the bump. If your feet are too far away, the power of the bridge will be limited. Try brining them in tighter. Maybe.
_________________
http://alphajiujitsu.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJhRVuwbm__LwXPvFMReMww
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28975
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advise, Alex. I try to get my feet up as close to my butt as possible, so I have a good base on the ground before I bump. Sometimes is works, and sometimes not. If it doesn't, I just sit up and hug, and bring them down and close that way.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

ninjanurse
KF VIP

Joined: 13 Feb 2003
Posts: 6154
Location: Upstate NY
Styles: TKD;Shotokan;JuJitsu;Tai Ji

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps their hips are farther forward....a preferred position and defense against an upa.


_________________
"A Black Belt is only the beginning."
Heidi-A student of the arts
Tae Kwon Do,Shotokan,Ju Jitsu,Modern Arnis
http://the100info.tumblr.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28975
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That could be the case. I've been working more with it, trying to figure things out.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
The technique Dan demonstrated is the one Royce taught us for the GRACIE defensive tactics course. Pretty much verbatim. In the book, its referred to as "umpa with swim and trap." We use that variation if the attacker is postured up and striking, and we have a variation that we use if the attacker is choking, but they are both umpa variations. Your version is not one I had seen before.

I do have a concern with the umpa with swim and trap technique, though. Its a problem I have, but I don't see it with many others doing it. There are times when I will do the hip bump, but it doesn't get the desired result of knocking them forward and off-balance. I don't know if its because I have short legs, and don't generate the angle needed to get them off balance, or what, but I have trouble with it a times. I fix it by instead sitting up and wrapping my arms around their body, and then pulling them down onto their hands, and then swim and trap; I thank the head instructor at our DT club for showing that variation. My question to you, Alex, and anyone versed in BJJ, is what do you think is going wrong for me there?

!


Short answer-we will assume you're not doing the move to its fullest potential. So yeah, more bridge, more I on, and all that....

Long term answer-a bump and roll attempts to move your opponent too much. The more you try to move your opponent, or should I say the more your move requires that you move your opponent, the weaker it becomes against skilled opponents.... Then you need to learn how to hip escape
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> BJJ, Judo, Jujitsu, Aikido, and Grappling Martial Arts All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Page 1 of 1
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >