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Gazrichards
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 13 Jun 2013
Posts: 16
Location: Beds, bucks, northants. UK
Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion the more of these so called governing bodies there are, the less need there is to join one of them as they become less credible.
I run a club ( or group of clubs ) that represent approx 300 people. I buy my insurance policy direct from the company so that anyone in my dojo is insured. I then charge students an annual membership (often referred to as licence ) fee that covers this insurance out lay and some other running costs. any non members wishing to train in my dojo are welcome to do so but I charge them a higher rate for training but they are definitely still insured.
There are not many companies in the UK offering martial arts insurance and most of the "governing bodies" will use the same company under the same terms. The insurance policy is often a member to member policy but does not require that you mention individuals it just allows your members to claim against each other. You can also get an instructors liability in case a student tries to claim against you.
For the record I am actually a member of a few different organisations including the EKF but as a personal member or through some one else's club.
Any inter club relations I do off my own back and I pick and choose what seminars and events I want to attend.
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mal103
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 559


PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gazrichards wrote:

...Any inter club relations I do off my own back and I pick and choose what seminars and events I want to attend.


This is what I have enjoyed since running my own club, when I investigated the big orgs/assoc I found out certain bits of info that I didn't like:

Large joining fee? For what, an admin fee yes but why 100's
You can only attend "their" competitions and must buy their pads and in one case even certain Gi's to enter their competitions!!!
Yearly student licence fee's on top of insurance? Having a club membership fee is not enough money grabbing for some, they have to charge your students extra as well.

And for what? We can say we belong to a big name, at the moment there is no legal requirement to have anything in place to run a club in the UK, when you can get DBS (police checks), 1st Aid courses, Insurance (member/instructor) etc from other places or direct then why exactly do we need them?

I lost all confidence in the big names when they tried getting around a table and forming some sort of council so that Karate could finally be recognised by Sport England and enter the olympics, we could then get more things and possibly funding etc. This could come with other bad bits but I think it would have been a positive step forward.
I don't even think they could agree what day it was...

The main benefit I could see would be to stop the McDojo's but that's another conversation.
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Gazrichards
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 13 Jun 2013
Posts: 16
Location: Beds, bucks, northants. UK
Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most if not all of the "governing bodies" are actually just private companies run by the few to make some dosh. They buy insurance from the same company as we can get it from privately and charge a fee to include your club and members on the policy. I actually do this to a mate of mines club. He has a small group of approx 50 members and can't be bothered with the hassle of getting his own policy so he tags on to mine and throws me some cash.

Best thing I ever did is leaving governing bodies well alone. Your lower grade students don't know any differance and I've actually seen my members grow in Dan grades joining me from other groups after they get fed up with ridiculous politics and rules set by their former organisation.
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mal103
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 559


PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was close to joining what I thought at the time was the best around but then found out that all dan grades have to be done by their "approved" Dan grades and the nearest was 30 miles away, I have two 1st Kyu's nearly ready and I will want to do my 3rd dan when ready so this was a big spanner.
A friendly club nearby has offered to do all of our seniors gradings.

I think there is a growing "movement" towards leaving politics at the door, I had a fun idea of putting a waste bin near our Dojo doors for all Ego's, may add Politics.

I have trained with a great group of friends near London who get together regularly and don't give a damn about rank, group, club, assoc, org..
I think this is great and should be actively encouraged to help build links instead of building fences.
One of the final straws with my old Sensei was when he tried to stop me training with others nearby and slandered them, they are technically better so I can see why he was worried now. Instead of training together and sharing knowledge we now have more "them-n-us" rubbish.
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jaypo
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 520

Styles: Shotokan, Shorin Ryu

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think any of the Okinawan farmers that had to teach their children self defense in their backyards disguised as dance routines were a part of any large governing body! Therefore, I don't see it as necessary to be a part of one.

I was skeptical at first when I started training in my current club because it wasn't involved with JKA, SKIF, etc. However, I got what I wanted out of the training. My Sensei always says that he broke ties with the "overseas" governing bodies because he was tired of the "politics" and tired of "sending all his money overseas just to say he's a part of it".

And I highly doubt that if someone confronts me on the street, he'll flee in terror if I tell him that I test under the JKA, but he won't flee otherwise.
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Gazrichards
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 13 Jun 2013
Posts: 16
Location: Beds, bucks, northants. UK
Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It all depends on what you want to get out of your karate really.
Some people like to tick boxes and say they are members of such and such group and have train with this guy and that guy. These people are often confused when you say you are not a member of a mainstream org or that you have not got one particular sensei.
In my eyes a grade awarded by an examiner that visits twice a year is worth far less than by one that has trained along side you and pushed you for months. The main orgs tend to go with the former approach rather than the later.
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jaypo
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 520

Styles: Shotokan, Shorin Ryu

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point! That also makes me think that those "2 times a year" guys are also looking at only what they thing is acceptable. Although I practice a style made up of 2 traditional arts, I tend to add my own little "flairs" here and there. For example, for practical purposes, when I'm doing bunkai, a lot of times, instead of drawing my arm back, I protect my face with it. This isn't traditional in nature, but it is practical in reality. In my club, it's acceptable. However, if a JKA examiner would see me doing that in 1 or 3 step kumite, I'd probably be scrutinized for it. They're looking for the straight step, block, and strong counter with full drawback.

While I am studying these styles for their tradition, I'm also studying them for their real world benefits. I don't think I should be scrutinized for doing something that I believe is more beneficial in a real situation. (I guess that's what Bruce founded his entire "way" from)
_________________
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Be Faithful
Endeavor
Respect others
Refrain from violent behavior.
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