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Prototype
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject: My boxing instructor does not believe in me Reply with quote

I was moved up a level to be able to do some more extensive sparring. I have 3 and a half years of background in ITF TaeKwonDo.

My coach now did a major turn-around, because my technique on the heavybag is much worse than the other guys.The thing is I keep telling him that sparring is my strong suit. I have dominated his students my first sparring session, yet he still wants to move me down a level due to my poor technique on the heavy bag.

What happened now is that I get to spar some intermediate guys on friday, and my coach said ; "no complaints if you get floored, okey?!"

My question is is simply, should I have the confidence to spar his intermediate guys, concidering the the secondary level guys was easy for me, or should I just drop this gym? Will he try to set me up to prove a point?

How would you handle it?
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DWx
KF Sensei
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6118
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: My boxing instructor does not believe in me Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:
I was moved up a level to be able to do some more extensive sparring. I have 3 and a half years of background in ITF TaeKwonDo.

My coach now did a major turn-around, because my technique on the heavybag is much worse than the other guys.The thing is I keep telling him that sparring is my strong suit. I have dominated his students my first sparring session, yet he still wants to move me down a level due to my poor technique on the heavy bag.

What happened now is that I get to spar some intermediate guys on friday, and my coach said ; "no complaints if you get floored, okey?!"

My question is is simply, should I have the confidence to spar his intermediate guys, concidering the the secondary level guys was easy for me, or should I just drop this gym? Will he try to set me up to prove a point?

How would you handle it?

Could it be that you are winning against the beginner students due to your TKD background? Knowing how to move will get you so far and will help you beat people with limited previous sparring experience. But as far as boxing basics go I can't imagine your TKD school taught you strict boxing movement.
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Wado Heretic
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Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 387
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First; good to read that you are progressing, and getting a step closer to being able to spar at the most intense level. This is good progress, and I hope it will be a good learning experience.

However, I must now state the harsh truth; a good coach can judge a lot from bag work. Your bag work reflects your stopping power, and stopping power arrives from both hand speed and strength, as well as quality of technique. If you are looking bad on the bag; that implies you lack stopping power, which means you lack hand speed and strength. In full contact, your ability to stop your opponent is your best defence. Also; your bag work reflects your ability to effectively defend, from the perspective of power.
Also; never judge yourself by your fellow beginners, especially if you have the prior experience you do have. Your Tae Kwon Do training will have given you hand-speed, foot-speed, a sense of distance control, and ultimately the experience of sparring. You are conditioned to an extent, and have prior relevant experience; against a complete or relative beginner you should be having great success, even coming from a different combat sport.

What I will say is this; you have not provided sufficient evidence for me to judge your coach’s statement. Now, it sounds as though this sparring will be contact sparring; hence the statement about being floored. If it is contact sparring, and you are doing so much worse on the bags then everyone else; I would be warning you if I was your coach. I would not purposefully set you up for a fall, but I would not pretend that I would have full confidence in you either. Especially if you are facing intermediate level boxers; my guess is that this might be where you find the edge you carried over from your three years of TKD experience will run thin, or even disappear. You will be facing people who have been at the boxing game for a while now.

If you feel it is a set up; then yes, you should leave the gym. If you cannot trust your coach, you should not stay. However, by the sounds of it, your coach is just preparing you psychologically for what might happen.
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Prototype
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: My boxing instructor does not believe in me Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Prototype wrote:
I was moved up a level to be able to do some more extensive sparring. I have 3 and a half years of background in ITF TaeKwonDo.

My coach now did a major turn-around, because my technique on the heavybag is much worse than the other guys.The thing is I keep telling him that sparring is my strong suit. I have dominated his students my first sparring session, yet he still wants to move me down a level due to my poor technique on the heavy bag.

What happened now is that I get to spar some intermediate guys on friday, and my coach said ; "no complaints if you get floored, okey?!"

My question is is simply, should I have the confidence to spar his intermediate guys, concidering the the secondary level guys was easy for me, or should I just drop this gym? Will he try to set me up to prove a point?

How would you handle it?

Could it be that you are winning against the beginner students due to your TKD background? Knowing how to move will get you so far and will help you beat people with limited previous sparring experience. But as far as boxing basics go I can't imagine your TKD school taught you strict boxing movement.


My ITF school did drill the basic boxing punches. But we did not use gloves and we did not hit a heavy bag.. The resistance from a heavy bag makes me sloppy, and also tires me quickly. My shadow boxing is not bad.

I dominated secondary level guys, not beginners. The reason was because my hands were too quick against guys who mainly did technique training.. I would'nt read too much into the specific style.I dominate my fellow TKD guys with my hands as well. I have always had above average hand speed.
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DWx
KF Sensei
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6118
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: My boxing instructor does not believe in me Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:


My ITF school did drill the basic boxing punches. But we did not use gloves and we did not hit a heavy bag.. The resistance from a heavy bag makes me sloppy, and also tires me quickly. My shadow boxing is not bad.

I dominated secondary level guys, not beginners. The reason was because my hands were too quick against guys who mainly did technique training.. I would'nt read too much into the specific style.I dominate my fellow TKD guys with my hands as well. I have always had above average hand speed.

The bold bit might be exactly why he's asked you to take a step back and work fundamentals. In the long run a good solid foundation will more beneficial to you despite previous training. In addition to the hands, its the footwork which is important as well. In TKD it's very different because you'd also be concerned about using kicks.
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Prototype
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: My boxing instructor does not believe in me Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Prototype wrote:


My ITF school did drill the basic boxing punches. But we did not use gloves and we did not hit a heavy bag.. The resistance from a heavy bag makes me sloppy, and also tires me quickly. My shadow boxing is not bad.

I dominated secondary level guys, not beginners. The reason was because my hands were too quick against guys who mainly did technique training.. I would'nt read too much into the specific style.I dominate my fellow TKD guys with my hands as well. I have always had above average hand speed.

The bold bit might be exactly why he's asked you to take a step back and work fundamentals. In the long run a good solid foundation will more beneficial to you despite previous training. In addition to the hands, its the footwork which is important as well. In TKD it's very different because you'd also be concerned about using kicks.


I didn't have to make any adjustments to boxing sparring.. I mainly do jab combos in TKD sparring anyway. Throw in a few mid section round kicks here and there.
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Prototype
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is, we don't work on the heavy bag in beginners group, so how am I supposed to be good at something I was never taught? Did he mean that he will teach me privately after X amount of time? I don't get it.
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
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Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still confused. An intermediate level boxer is still not going to "floor" you.

I mean its one thing to get popped, but I'd consider amatuers to be "intermediate" level. I don't get whats so difficult about wanting to step in and goa few rounds. Its sparring not fighting...
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Tempest
Green Belt
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Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 420
Location: Tulsa, OK
Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. I have been kinda staying off of this one because I really wanted the people with more "official" boxing experience to chime in...

But, here I go anyway:
Look, there are several things that I can tell right away from someone's heavy bag technique that would ABSOLUTELY give me pause about sending them in with more advanced guys.

1. If your punches look sloppy on the bag, and the bag is not moving right, it means you lack the form and structure to generate enough power to stop a bigger, more advanced fighter. They may just walk through your punches and hit you till you fall down.

2. If the bag still moves, even with sloppy punches, it means you are making up for poor form with muscle. This means you will more likely injure yourself and others. If I am thinking about putting you in with one of my guys training for a fight, this is a no go.

3. If YOU aren't moving around the bag, then that means your footwork and distance management are not where they need to be yet.

Now, earlier on here I posted some tips on how to work the bag to fix a lot of these issues. I will see if I can link to it in a moment.

Additionally, the heavy bag SHOULD get some work during class, BUT it is also your primary solo drill tool. Spend at LEAST as much time on it as you do your shadow boxing.
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Last edited by Tempest on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tempest
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Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 420
Location: Tulsa, OK
Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.karateforums.com/tips-for-the-bag-vt51265.html

Here is the link I promised.
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